Re: EXTERNAL: OT: Linux vendor survey results
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 16:18:54 +0000
Message-ID: <CAOCOAVLp5QSfJO4z533_Z5nuE_i+ps3HyN4CA-7z=y0yJqwqRA_at_mail.gmail.com>
I definitely don't want to expand this thread into a broader Oracle and Open source discussion, where Oracle's sins are apparently legion.
But in general Oracle doesn't understand/play well with the Open source community.
I don't believe that is the case with Linux.
The appeal of Linux to Oracle is obvious.
The cost of a solution will be the cost of hardware + software stack.
Where competitors like Microsoft are pushing their 'expensive' operating system as a mandatory component of any SQL server installation, having a 'free' operating system available under an Oracle database stack, then Oracle can get a bigger slice of any same priced pie.
The view from Oracle is that Red Had didn't play fair.
Red Hat have effectively (in Oracles view at least) forked the Linux Kernel, this has allowed Red Hat to overcharge for it's support by providing a barrier to entering the market.
Red Hat enhanced their kernel and keep it as a separate development tree. When new mainstream Linux kernels are released, Red Hat evaluates the changes and then if appropriate migrate them into their kernel fork.
When Oracle encountered problems implementing their database on RHL that required patching of the Linux Kernel, in Oracles option Red Hat didn't add these patches into their kernel in a timely manner, typically Red hat would wait for the patches to be included into the mainstream kernel and then port them back into the Red Hat kernel.
It was for that reason that Oracle adopted the mainstream kernel, enhancing it and offering it as an alternative the the RHL kernel.
I suspect that it would be possible for oracle to produce proprietary drivers for Linux, although I don't really see the motivation for that.
I suspect that incorporating the new driver to the Red Hat kernel might not actually be straight forward.
I can see the motivation for Oracle to not produce a RHL version of the driver, but I suspect that Oracle will contribute the source to the mainstream kernel and Red had can choose to adopt it from there.
If Oracle does retain this code as proprietary, then I can see this damaging the relationship with the Linux community which I believe was relatively good up till now.
Dave
NB. I would classify all the above as educated opinion and definitely not
fact!
x
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:59 PM, Rayson Ho <raysonlogin_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> (I was trying to mention Oracle's public git but then found that
> initially I couldn't send messages to the list... so I will just add
> one extra point about the Oracle public git)
>
> Two years ago Redhat started to merge everything into one giant kernel
> patch before they release it to the public hoping that others won't
> know what they added and fixed for RHEL customers:
>
>
> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/03/04/red_hat_twarts_oracle_and_novell_with_change_to_source_code_packaging/
>
> Oracle reverse-engineered redhat's patch and the git repo is available
> at: https://oss.oracle.com/git/?p=redpatch.git;a=summary
>
> I've worked with guys at Oracle who develop Oracle Linux, and Oracle
> does have the engineering capability to fix issues -- in fact, besides
> the UEK & the RHEL kernel, Oracle also offers a patched RHEL kernel
> that has patches not in RHEL.
>
> Rayson
>
> ==================================================
> Open Grid Scheduler - The Official Open Source Grid Engine
> http://gridscheduler.sourceforge.net/
> http://gridscheduler.sourceforge.net/GridEngine/GridEngineCloud.html
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Marc Fielding <fielding_at_pythian.com>
> wrote:
> > Don,
> >
> > Taking a peek at Oracle's UEK source git viewer, the full IB stack seems
> to
> > be there, including change-level detail. See
> >
> https://oss.oracle.com/git/?p=linux-uek3-3.8.git;a=tree;f=drivers/infiniband/core
> > for example. According to the UEK3 announcement
> > (
> https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/entry/announcing_the_unbreakable_enterprise_kernel
> )
> > it's just the OFED 2.0 stack. It's dual GPL/BSD licensed, so I don't
> see a
> > reason why Red Hat couldn't incorporate the bits and pieces into their
> own
> > kernel should they choose to.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Don Seiler <don_at_seiler.us> wrote:
> >>
> >> It's accurate, and I asked them repeatedly about the nature of the bug
> and
> >> the fix and they wouldn't tell me. I'm drafting a blog post about it
> but was
> >> hoping to provide more detail for the reader other than "Oracle said
> so". My
> >> take was that Oracle said they re-wrote the module from scratch, and so
> >> wasn't bound by any GPL-type of license forcing them to make their
> changes
> >> available.
> >>
> >> It was disappointing to say the least, and so long story short we had to
> >> abandon Infiniband in favor of 10gbE.
> >>
> >> Don.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Matthew Zito <matt_at_crackpotideas.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If that's accurate, that's an extremely hostile statement on the part
> of
> >>> Oracle. Linux is open source, and in general, other than some video
> drivers
> >>> that are still a sensitive subject, kernel modules are not closed
> source.
> >>> For Oracle to take all of the work that Red Hat put into building
> RHEL, copy
> >>> all of the bits they *did not* make closed source, and then
> reimplement just
> >>> the pieces they choose and call it proprietary is very troubling.
> >>>
> >>> Matt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Don Seiler <don_at_seiler.us> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I can also say that OEL/UEK contains some fixes that aren't available
> in
> >>>> RHEL. In my case it was that Oracle UEK had a complete re-write of
> the OFA
> >>>> module (open fabric). The RHEL version of this module causes
> DirectNFS to
> >>>> choke on Infiniband. Oracle is not sharing their re-write back to RH
> since
> >>>> they say it's proprietary. However we're still on RHEL so we had to
> abandon
> >>>> our Infiniband plans.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Don Seiler
> >> http://www.seiler.us
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Marc Fielding
> > Senior Consultant
> > Pythian - love your data
> > fielding_at_pythian.com | twitter.com/mfild | linkedin.com/in/mfielding
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> --
> http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>
>
>
-- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-lReceived on Mon Dec 09 2013 - 17:18:54 CET