RE: Standy database on standard edition

From: Patterson, Joel <jpatterson_at_entint.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 13:31:35 -0400
Message-ID: <C1117B1AA0340645894671E09A7891F71511DF69B9_at_EIHQEXVM2.ei.local>



Thanks, we may be coming to a resolution :) Joel Patterson
Database Administrator
904 928-2790

From: Justin Mungal [mailto:justin_at_n0de.ws] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:21 PM
To: Patterson, Joel
Cc: Hans Forbrich; oracle-l_at_freelists.org Subject: Re: Standy database on standard edition

Yes, you can do that, and it's legal. That is considered a manual standby because you "manually" needed to develop+schedule scripts and what not to do the duplication for you, and manually resolve problems that occur with the configuration. Data Guard is considered the "managed" solution because, for example, it can (usually) resume shipping logs after something like a network failure occurs. It also has a considerable number of features that would be difficult to emulate with a manual solution.

I think it comes down to Oracle banking on larger Enterprise customers not wanting to spend the time and money creating and maintaining a manual solution when Oracle has already created a solution that requires minimal intervention once it's configured. That may sound naive, but Data Guard has been much less of a pain than manual standby solutions in my experience. Chiefly because of the time it takes to fix things when something breaks.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Patterson, Joel <jpatterson_at_entint.com<mailto:jpatterson_at_entint.com>> wrote:

To push logic a little more. Could you not just RMAN 'duplicate the primary, and then shutdown, mount and repeat on a schedule. You could even intervene an open read only legally. Rman should pick up where it left off, recognizing that the datafile have been recovered rather quickly, unless I'm mistaken there, and move right to the archive logs. You could call it the automated duplicating application. Essentially doing the same thing as a manual 'standby' without standby parameters or commands.

I suppose the analogy is akin to the one Steven Hawkins used to describe the idea that he loved to argue about things that had no answer. Of course we know there is an answer, we will just not 'commit' to the one we think it is.

Joel Patterson
Database Administrator
904 928-2790<tel:904%20928-2790>

--
Joel Patterson
Sr. Database Administrator | Enterprise Integration
Phone: 904-928-2790<tel:904-928-2790> | Fax: 904-733-4916<tel:904-733-4916>
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From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>] On Behalf Of Patterson, Joel
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Hans Forbrich
Cc: oracle-l_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
Subject: RE: Standy database on standard edition

Thanks Hans, and your right.   As far as reading it on the internet... I suppose I did read the Oracle Data Guard Concepts and Administration manual on the internet... Is it available in hardback?  :)

I'm tyring to apply a little logic.


>> Section 2.3.2 of this document indicates that data guard is not part of Standard Edition -- so how can you violate that license?
>> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/server.112/e25608/standby.htm
It does seem like a sad day when a lawyer has to be involved with everything..., even on top of the sales team themselves. But even then the lawyer is not Installing all options by default, or querying existing tables or views that are not licensed.... or using a data guard command that is unlicensed, and 'nobody' will stand up and commit, -- that is how insidious it is to be that afraid and paranoid. This is where almost all of oracle money comes from, it's a circle that eventually goes back to the lawyers. Can you believe it can be that hard? Joel Patterson Database Administrator 904 928-2790<tel:904%20928-2790> -- Joel Patterson Sr. Database Administrator | Enterprise Integration Phone: 904-928-2790<tel:904-928-2790> | Fax: 904-733-4916<tel:904-733-4916> http://www.entint.com/ http://www.entint.com/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/Enterprise-Integration/212351215444231 http://twitter.com/#!/entint http://www.linkedin.com/company/18276?trk=tyah http://www.youtube.com/user/ValueofIT This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. [v.1.1] From: Hans Forbrich [mailto:fuzzy.graybeard_at_gmail.com<mailto:fuzzy.graybeard_at_gmail.com>] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:48 AM To: Patterson, Joel Cc: oracle-l_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l_at_freelists.org> Subject: Re: Standy database on standard edition All that said - the only legal answer can come from Oracle. "I read it on the internet" is not a good defense when talking to the judge about a contract dispute. (And ... the comment about licensing both servers was not directed at you, but at the masses who do not know this but happen to Google this thread.) /Hans On 12/06/2013 9:35 AM, Patterson, Joel wrote:
> To be clear to everyone offline as well. Both servers are fully licensed, Both databases are Standard Edition. Standard Edition cannot use Data Guard.
>
> Therefore, there is no command possible for the standby that would violate the data guard licensing provisions. This is the question. It appears you answered it below eventually.
>
> I am not asking how to do it.
>
> Joel Patterson
> Database Administrator
> 904 928-2790<tel:904%20928-2790>
>
>
>
> --
> Joel Patterson
> Sr. Database Administrator | Enterprise Integration
> Phone: 904-928-2790<tel:904-928-2790> | Fax: 904-733-4916<tel:904-733-4916> http://www.entint.com/
>
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> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Enterprise-Integration/212351215444231
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> From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>
> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>] On Behalf Of Hans Forbrich
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:00 AM
> To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org<mailto:oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
> Subject: Re: Standy database on standard edition
>
> Since it's often confused by various people, just to reiterate: All servers must be licensed, whether in r/w, r/o or recovery disconnect.
>
> And, as clarification, standby is not DataGuard. DataGuard is simply
> a technology that automates the process [work] flow of standby for
> Oracle
> databases: the extraction, shipping, receiving, application of logs and coordinated switchover/failover control.
>
> Basically Oracle is saying you can not configure DG, although nothing - as far as I can tell - is stopping you from manually doing the same thing as Data Guard provides.
>
> Rather than try to duplicate DG capabilities, just peek at DbVisit, an
> Oracle partner who provides a great & legal standby solution for
> Standard Edition at a very reasonable price. http://dbvisit.com
>
> /Hans
>
> On 12/06/2013 8:40 AM, Patterson, Joel wrote:
>> Section 2.3.2 of this document indicates that data guard is not part of Standard Edition.
>> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/server.112/e25608/standby.htm
>>
>> In your opinions, would my interpretation that the data guard licensing could not possibly be violated whether the standby database stays in recovery disconnect from session, or whether it is recovered once/day and opened read only?
>>
>> I opened an SR, but it is a sev 4...
>>
>> Also, if both databases on the separate servers happen to have the same exact name, is that a show stopper or an issue? The standby will point its logsource for recovery to the primary archive log destination on a backup device.
>>
>>
>> Joel Patterson
>> Senior Oracle Database Administrator
>> jpatterson_at_entint.com<mailto:jpatterson_at_entint.com><mailto:jpatterson_at_entint.com<mailto:jpatterson_at_entint.com>>
>> Office: 904 928-2790<tel:904%20928-2790>
>> Enterprise Integration Corporation /
>> www.entint.com<http://www.entint.com><http://www.entint.com/>
>> 7601 Centurion Parkway | Jacksonville, FL 32256
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel Patterson
>> Sr. Database Administrator | Enterprise Integration
>> Phone: 904-928-2790<tel:904-928-2790> | Fax: 904-733-4916<tel:904-733-4916>
>> www.entint.com<http://www.entint.com><http://www.entint.com/>
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Received on Wed Jun 12 2013 - 19:31:35 CEST

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