Re: Slightly OT: SQL Server conference vs. Oracle conferences...
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 19:06:53 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <983297.51304.qm_at_web32005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Being Sheriff is an important part of being a *true* DBA, that's for sure... To steal a line I used to hear from Dan Fink, "Time to put on my black hat..." I believe he was talkin' 10 gallon at least! :)
Kellyn Pedersen
Multi-Platform DBA
I-Behavior Inc.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kellynpedersen
"Go away before I replace you with a very small and efficient shell script..."
- On Wed, 11/4/09, Robert Freeman <robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Robert Freeman <robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Slightly OT: SQL Server conference vs. Oracle conferences... To: "Kellyn Pedersen" <kjped1313_at_yahoo.com>, "oracle-l_at_freelists.org" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 6:22 PM
Some very good points Kellyn. I've talked to several people at this conference that have the same experience with SQL Server that we do.... It got released into the wild because IT was not agile enough to meet the needs of the customer or because it was "just" an off the shelf application.... Not just one got released into the wild but a whole bunch did... proliferation of what really were enterprise databases, managed and designed by someone who was not a DBA and in (some) cases actually had some disdain for the value of a DBA/modeler.
Then, someone with some experience comes in and sees the mess that's been created, or some disaster occurs or both.... and the DBA realm has to come in, play sheriff and get these things in-line.
I see real value in multi-platfor/db experience and I see a real opportunity for Sheriff's in the future as these rough-shod/Windows ridin'/hibernate toatin' rascals of the west find that they have done themselves and their Enterprise a big disservice long term. Maybe I need to put out my Shingle, Robert Freeman, OCP/ACE and SQL Server Sheriff....
Robert G. Freeman
Oracle ACE
Ask me about on-site Oracle Training! RMAN, DBA, Tuning, you name it!
Author:
Oracle Database 11g RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press) - ON IT'S WAY SOON!
OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
Other various titles
Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
From: Kellyn Pedersen <kjped1313_at_yahoo.com>
To: "oracle-l_at_freelists.org" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>; robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 4:31:52 PM
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: SQL Server conference vs. Oracle conferences...
OK, I'm going to pipe in on this one and hopefully will be seen as shedding light and not as a DBA who likes to play on the darkside. :D
I have multi-platform DBA in my title for a reason- I like databases, I've never been a strong developer, (although I will code if starvation is the only other option...:)), but I have just as many years in SQL Server as I do in Oracle, both hitting two digits this last year. I also find many positives in MySQL, Informix, Sybase, Postgres and DB2 and have managed systems in each. When I first started, my ADHD was more than happy to take on any platform they threw at me and excelled. I was informed that I was going to kill my career if I didn't specialize in a database platform and the first couple of years, I wondered if a few folks weren't right.
With the economy the way it is, I've been teased about how fast of a turn around I had after being laid off, (was without a permanent position for all of one week...) so I'm pretty happy I stuck to what was right for my career, (and ADHD... :)) I now manage Oracle, SQL Server and MySQL, letting my brain go from one challenge to the next, investigating the newest feature in each anytime I get a chance.
As for the lack of maturity at SQL Pass, I think you are probably right. I don't know how often I've been hired as an Oracle DBA, only to have SQL Server brought to me on a silver platter or in a crushing blow when they realize how operations impacting the system was they built on it with the idea that "SQL Server is soooo easy to manage that the System Admin/Application Admin/User can support it just fine." How many of those folks at SQL Pass are not *true* DBA's? As many SQL Server events I've been to in the last 10 years, I'd guess close to 80%. How many of those have DBA in their title and are actually developers or Sys Admins? Trust me, we are getting to less than 10% are actual DBA's...
Can SQL Server work without a DBA? For an enterprise level system, about two years till it comes crashing down around their ears. I then have to be a DBA- just like I have to be for an Oracle database and take care of what needs to be cared for. Set up the backups, verify recovery, set up monitoring, notifications, error handling, performance tuning, etc., etc...
I don't know how many SQL Server "DBA's" I've interviewed and had to break it to them- "Nope, you aren't a DBA, you are a System Admin/Application Admin/User with some skills- thanks for coming in though!"
I'm going through the same thing at my new job. They have a very vital system that was easy to set up and install on SQL Server, but no SQL Server skill set on staff. No backups, no recovery verification, no alert checking or notification of failures and no patching which is a real no-no in SQL Server. The management is always shocked when they become aware how vulnerable the system is without a "real DBA" on staff...
Kellyn Pedersen
Multi-Platform DBA
I-Behavior Inc.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kellynpedersen
"Go away before I replace you with a very small and efficient shell script..."
- On Wed, 11/4/09, Robert Freeman <robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Robert Freeman <robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Slightly OT: SQL Server conference vs. Oracle conferences... To: "oracle-l_at_freelists.org" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 9:27 AM
I'm in Seattle this week attending SQL Pass (anyone else in Oracle-L here?). I'd liken SQL Pass, somewhat, to Collaborate though it is very database specific. I'd say there are maybe 1500 to 2000 attending here (I've seen no numbers, this is only a guess). Yes, I'm a man who is visiting a foreign country. I wear my Oracle shirt proudly and got a few interesting looks in the process yesterday.
One thing I've noticed (thus far) is the maturity at this conference (and fairly I've been one day only so far) is NOTHING like those at the bigger Oracle conferences such as Collaborate, RMOUG or HOTSOS. The level and depth of the speaking at the Oracle conferences is much better than what I've seen here. I've yet to see a presentation that wows me as I have from the likes of Tom Kyte, Tim Gorman, Cary Millsap and the like. There is a level of maturity that is missing here I think, both in presentations, style and content. Anyway, I fully recognize that my Oracle bigotry might be showing, but I'm not all that impressed. Let's see how I feel at the end of the week.
Just thought I'd share.
Cheers!
RF
Robert G. Freeman
Oracle ACE
Ask me about on-site Oracle Training! RMAN, DBA, Tuning, you name it!
Author:
Oracle Database 11g RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press) - ON IT'S WAY SOON!
OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
Other various titles
Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com/
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