RE: Certifications don't count! (from a good test-taker)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:16:34 -0400
Many valid observations have been made. I have seen good DBAs with and without certification. For people trying to go up the ranks (or entering) without a mentor and no practical knowledge of the industry, I see accredation as a means to prove some determination to start on their career path. Depending on the requirements, I think 'binning' an applicant because they carry a credential from a mainstream company or third party (no better no worse than anyone else) is equally unfair to hiring based solely on credential. Hiring into a team is always a risk balanced by 'fit' (i.e. who is best fit for the team). Most companies have a 'feeling out' period to determine this (though not always adhered to). My own experience with accredation, bad/good interviews, and Human Resources has its own tale (as I'm sure everyone else has)... We can only use our best judgement and hope for good candidates who bring with them both the experience and personalities they present during the interview process.
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] On Behalf Of M Rafiq Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:46 AM
To: dannorris_at_dannorris.com; dbvision_at_iinet.net.au Cc: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: RE: Certifications don't count! (from a good test-taker)
However, if you go through the recruiters then 'certification' is the only criteria (due to lack of their knowledge) to submit your resume with their client.
Same is true with some big consulting companies where they prefer to hire candidates with some sort of certification and put them on their client site to 'impress' them.
No doubt it is quite bad practice and there is no replacement of experience.
> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:30:19 -0600
> From: dannorris_at_dannorris.com
> To: dbvision_at_iinet.net.au
> CC: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
> Subject: Re: Certifications don't count! (from a good test-taker)
> I completely agree. In fact, I've never even had an OCM show up as a
> candidate for hire even though the qualifications for some positions
> have been in line with OCM-level knowledge. I do think, though, that
> certification is sometimes used as a differentiator when there are two
> candidates with similar experience and skill (at least on a resume),
> only one has certification. I don't necessarily think that's fair and
> may not result in the best candidate getting the interview, but when
> filtering a stack of resumes down to a few that get interviews, you
> to apply some sort of criteria.
> Nuno Souto wrote:
> > Hmmm, given that there are around 200 there and it is
> > worldwide, I'd say basing interview selection criteria
> > on solely the producing of an OCM is a bit short-sighted...
> > Who knows, there might actually be good dbas out there
> > who don't give a fig about paying through their noses
> > for a "certification"?
> > Cheers
> > Nuno Souto
> > in (finally!) sunny Sydney, Australia
> > dbvision_at_iinet.net.au
> > Dan Norris wrote,on my timestamp of 10/06/2008 1:44 AM:
> >> For verification, you can just look online at
> >> http://www.oracle.com/technology/ocm/
> >> If they aren't listed there, they may still be an OCM, but if
> >> on the page, they're an OCM since Oracle Ed maintains that page. As
> >> far as I know, OCM credentials have no expiration, though at some
> >> point, they're probably outdated and not much help.
> >> Dan
> >> daniel koehne wrote:
> >>> A couple of years ago I got very frustrated when dealing with
> >>> Certifications. On both occasions I needed Oracle to verify that a
> >>> certification was valid (i.e. the person claiming to have a
> >>> certification actually had one) but Oracle went out of their way
> >>> make verification difficult. When I needed to verify my
> >>> to a perspective employer I got some mail stating that verifying
> >>> certifications may take up to 2 weeks and the verification ended
> >>> taking a 8 business days. The other time I wanted to verify
> >>> claimed OCM and Oracle said that we needed permission from the
> >>> we were interviewing to start the verification process and that
> >>> verification would take up to 2 weeks--I was suspicious about the
> >>> initial OCM claim so this person was filed in the circular filing
> >>> cabinet because of all the hassle.
> >>> I have also had trouble proving to Oracle certification folks that
> >>> have taken the required OCP Oracle class.
> >>> With Microsoft, I believe that the person with the certification
> >>> give you a number and you go to a Microsoft web site and are able
> >>> verify any certification claims very quickly.
> > --
> > http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live(tm) Messenger. Invite friends now! <https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends>Received on Tue Jun 10 2008 - 13:16:34 CDT