Re: Certifications don't count!

From: Dan Norris <>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 23:33:58 -0400
Message-ID: <>


I haven't heard of any cases of "faked" OCM credentials, but I have
heard of some "more experienced" DBAs digging out their old "Oracle
Master" booklet and creating confusion. I didn't participate, but back
in the 90s, Oracle Education had a program they called "Oracle Master".
It amounted to a reward program for those that spent a lot of time and
money with Oracle Education by giving them the title of "Oracle Master"
after completing a prescribed list of courses. I stopped hearing about
the program for a while, but when OCM was created, I heard of a few
digging out their old Oracle Master certificate. 

Certifications shouldn't be a replacement for a thorough technology interview, but may be used as a qualification to offer an interview in some cases. I've gone through many of Oracle's certifications, but mainly because I like to know it means when someone else tells me they're certified.

All that said, I have to say that I agree with many of the comments on this thread. The OCA and OCP exams can be passed by relatively inexperienced individuals with good test-taking and cramming abilities. The OCM practicum is a different story and requires some hands-on experience, but none of those things qualifies a person for much except possibly the right to an interview with you ;). I love a good technically challenging interview...whether I'm conducting it or having it conducted on me!


Robert Freeman wrote:
Again, let me be clear. I'm *not* saying that OCM is a perfect indication, it's not. I am saying that it holds some validity for me over that of the OCP or the OCA. I'm saying that it's one of a number of things that will get you at least a phone interview, not the only one and not alone, by itself. One could have 20 years of experience with a glowing resume and fail miserably at a technical interview (I've seen it more than once). There is no perfect measuring stick. I'm sure many of us have hired someone that in retrospect was not such a grand idea. It's just silly to throw out one of many yardsticks that you can use to measure someone by.

Also, just because one OCM fails an interview is, by itself, not a very good statistical sample by which to judge the OCM and what it has to say about candidates overall. Also, did you verify his OCM with Oracle? I wonder if there are those out there who will fake such credentials hoping that they won't be checked on. Has anyone ever seen a case where someone faked credentials?


Robert G. Freeman
Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
Oracle9i New Feature
Blog: (Oracle Press)
The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You must be LDS to apply (please don't write to me and tell me I'm breaking the law. A church can choose to hire members of it's own faith. Look it up if you don't believe me).

----- Original Message ----
From: Vishal Gupta <>
Cc: Oracle-L Freelists <>
Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2008 5:33:19 AM
Subject: RE: Certifications don't count!

I had interviewed an candidate, who looked very very impressive on CV and was OCM. But it lacked technical depth. He had difficulty in answering some of basic backup question and RMAN questions.


So, OCM only means that they some extra money to give to Oracle Corporation. It no indication of that they have the practical knowledge or would be suitable for the job.


Ultimately we rejected this candidate….



Vishal Gupta


From: [] On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
Sent: 06 June 2008 21:47
Cc: Oracle-L Freelists
Subject: Re: Certifications don't count!


I assure you that if I had a candidate with an OCM cert on his resume, I'd notice. I could care less about OCA and an OCP is just another thing I'd consider, but much less so than an OCM.

Personally, my opinion is that a resume is not much anyway. It gives me some idea if the candidate can write, but in my experience the bad candidates over inflate work history and experience (and crash and burt in technical interviews) and very often, strangely, the good candidates under inflate their experience (maybe they have so much that they feel it's bragging? I don't know). Then there are those who are still steeped in the "One Page" resume... whoah people, please give me all of your experience!! I can generally smoke out a candidate technically in a phone interview in about 5 minutes or less.  IMHO, that is where the winners beat out the losers for the most part.

Now, if I could just find a good DBA to come work for me (must be LDS - please, no emails about discrimination, it is perfectly legal because we are a Church!). We need people, NOW!




Robert G. Freeman
Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
Oracle9i New Feature
Blog: (Oracle Press)

The LDS Church needs DBA's NOW!

----- Original Message ----
From: Dennis Williams <>
To: Oracle-L Freelists <>
Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 1:45:16 PM
Subject: Certifications don't count!



It's official - hiring managers consider the value of a certification to be lower than a few years ago.



Doesn't specifically mention Oracle. It does mention what a great deal certification is for the people who sell training.


Dennis Williams

-- Received on Sun Jun 08 2008 - 22:33:58 CDT

Original text of this message