Return-Path: Delivered-To: 2-oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: (qmail 29064 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2007 22:18:29 -0600 Received: from freelists-180.iquest.net (HELO turing.freelists.org) (206.53.239.180) by 69.64.49.119 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2007 22:18:29 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C394C7CE636; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14436-09; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 314BC7CE471; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7C04D7D1289 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06647-10 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from web35405.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35405.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.114]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 02EA27CFD71 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 50447 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Dec 2007 03:31:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: s0erEY0VM1lbqvQVoceq_.AhJkMvCMkqlA9InMXXfTB4jkvA8fksKRzNVAAE.6L38eaW.g8oB7NRyFG2WEmeaYkacAOjg4tE58T6.sE7z.om9NQDNSw- Received: from [64.53.237.191] by web35405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:31:31 PST Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:31:31 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Norris Subject: Re: oracle rac 10g and OS clusterware. To: ujang.jaenudin@gmail.com, Peter McLarty Cc: oracle-l@freelists.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1607711436-1196825491=:50367" Message-ID: <130944.50367.qm@web35405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-archive-position: 3710 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dannorris@dannorris.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: dannorris@dannorris.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain --0-1607711436-1196825491=:50367 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ujang, Oracle Clusterware 10g will always handle node fencing (aka eviction) by rebooting one or more nodes. Oracle didn't have it's own cluster manager software for most platforms on 9i. So, if your customer was on a platform where Oracle didn't have a cluster manager of its own (it only had Linux and Windows), then building the RAC cluster would have required some 3rd party software. Some of the 3rd party cluster managers used different schemes to fence nodes from the cluster. Many of them used I/O fencing which was somewhat less disruptive in that it didn't require a node reboot, but required more proprietary interfaces to be used to access and manage storage. The answer to your question is that it depends. You will always have to have Oracle Clusterware if you're building a 10g cluster. However, if you additionally use a 3rd party clusterware (one that uses I/O fencing instead of reboots to handle node eviction), Oracle Clusterware will not handle cluster membership and therefore won't impose its "reboot the other node" scheme of node eviction. I should mention that I believe this is true in most cases, but not all cases. If you use just Oracle Clusterware (which is the only requirement and handles all cluster management needs albeit with using node reboots to evict them from the cluster), you'll be subject to node reboots if node eviction is required. See Kirk McGowan's post on Oracle Clusterware's node eviction methods at http://blogs.oracle.com/kmcgowan/2007/08/09#a13 for some additional insight. Dan ----- Original Message ---- From: Ujang Jaenudin To: Peter McLarty Cc: oracle-l@freelists.org Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 9:08:07 PM Subject: Re: oracle rac 10g and OS clusterware. peter, thanks for your sharing.... actually my customers said, that node eviction (by rebooting machine) isn't acceptable due to it is not achieve HA it self. they compare with the 9i RAC + OS cluster for almost they didn't have any problem with node eviction (not as extreme as 10g RAC + clusterware) so what I'm asking is is the node eviction will be same? (reboot the machine) regards ujang On 12/5/07, Peter McLarty wrote: > Hi Ujang > > Yes you need clusterware, this controls many behaviours of the RAC > cluster, it contains the OCR, it controls who gets evicted and forces > the reboots of those evicted nodes when that happens, ther are a numbe > of other important tasks that it also does. > > If you have an OS cluster package like Vertitas then you need to have > clusterware and they link up to each other to mange the system as a > whole. > > Yes you need a voting disk and OCR see above the OCR is part of > clusterware > > The private network which is the cache interconnect is a requirement. If > this fails the clusterware determines the host or hosts that will stay > and be evicted in this failure. The network can be Ethernet, but check > the install guide for your platform to see what is required. > > HTH > > Cheers > > -- > Peter McLarty > Pacific DBMS Pty Ltd > > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 07:49 +0700, Ujang Jaenudin wrote: > > > all, > > > > according to ML Note:220970.1 that whether use OS cluster or not, we > > must install oracle clusterware for 10g RAC. > > what I need other information are: > > 1 . is it same the behavior between 10g rac which use OS cluster and > > by purely oracle clusterware ? > > I mean the node eviction behavior.... > > 2. DO I need OCR and voting disk?? > > 3. is it network heartbeat (private network) still mandatory? and > > should use ethernet?? > > > > thanks for your sharing............. > > > > > -- regards ujang jakarta - indonesia http://ujang-id.blogspot.com -- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l --0-1607711436-1196825491=:50367 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Ujang,

Oracle Clusterware 10g will always handle node fencing (aka eviction) by rebooting one or more nodes. Oracle didn't have it's own cluster manager software for most platforms on 9i. So, if your customer was on a platform where Oracle didn't have a cluster manager of its own (it only had Linux and Windows), then building the RAC cluster would have required some 3rd party software. Some of the 3rd party cluster managers used different schemes to fence nodes from the cluster. Many of them used I/O fencing which was somewhat less disruptive in that it didn't require a node reboot, but required more proprietary interfaces to be used to access and manage storage.

The answer to your question is that it depends. You will always have to have Oracle Clusterware if you're building a 10g cluster. However, if you additionally use a 3rd party clusterware (one that uses I/O fencing instead of reboots to handle node eviction), Oracle Clusterware will not handle cluster membership and therefore won't impose its "reboot the other node" scheme of node eviction. I should mention that I believe this is true in most cases, but not all cases.

If you use just Oracle Clusterware (which is the only requirement and handles all cluster management needs albeit with using node reboots to evict them from the cluster), you'll be subject to node reboots if node eviction is required.

See Kirk McGowan's post on Oracle Clusterware's node eviction methods at http://blogs.oracle.com/kmcgowan/2007/08/09#a13 for some additional insight.

Dan

----- Original Message ----
From: Ujang Jaenudin <ujang.jaenudin@gmail.com>
To: Peter McLarty <peter.mclarty@pacificdbms.com.au>
Cc: oracle-l@freelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 9:08:07 PM
Subject: Re: oracle rac 10g and OS clusterware.

peter,

thanks for your sharing....

actually my customers said, that node eviction (by rebooting machine)
isn't acceptable due to it is not achieve HA it self.

they compare with the 9i RAC + OS cluster for almost they didn't have
any problem with node eviction (not as extreme as 10g RAC +
clusterware)

so what I'm asking is is the node eviction will be same? (reboot the machine)


regards
ujang


On 12/5/07, Peter McLarty <peter.mclarty@pacificdbms.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Ujang
>
> Yes you need clusterware, this controls many behaviours of the RAC
> cluster, it contains the OCR, it controls who gets evicted and forces
> the reboots of those evicted nodes when that happens, ther are a numbe
> of other important tasks that it also does.
>
> If you have an OS cluster package like Vertitas then you need to have
> clusterware and they link up to each other to mange the system as a
> whole.
>
> Yes you need a voting disk and OCR see above the OCR is part of
> clusterware
>
> The private network which is the cache interconnect is a requirement. If
> this fails the clusterware determines the host or hosts that will stay
> and be evicted in this failure. The network can be Ethernet, but check
> the install guide for your platform to see what is required.
>
> HTH
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Peter McLarty <peter.mclarty@pacificdbms.com.au>
> Pacific DBMS Pty Ltd
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 07:49 +0700, Ujang Jaenudin wrote:
>
> > all,
> >
> > according to ML Note:220970.1 that whether use OS cluster or not, we
> > must install oracle clusterware for 10g RAC.
> > what I need other information are:
> > 1 . is it same the behavior between 10g rac which use OS cluster and
> > by purely oracle clusterware ?
> >      I mean the node eviction behavior....
> > 2. DO I need OCR and voting disk??
> > 3. is it network heartbeat (private network) still mandatory? and
> > should use ethernet??
> >
> > thanks for your sharing.............
> >
>
>
>


--
regards
ujang
jakarta - indonesia
http://ujang-id.blogspot.com
--
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



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