Return-Path: Delivered-To: 2-oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: (qmail 30895 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2007 11:54:30 -0500 Received: from freelists-180.iquest.net (HELO turing.freelists.org) (206.53.239.180) by 69.64.49.119 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2007 11:54:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 36187742971; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32542-01; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 941F47428E8; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CB07E742383 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20919-04 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.231]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 698027424B4 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s18so431380nze for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:09:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=QHIm7qriIJNSsA3Oe7NC+iMLwWAjwsBQxy8Ktg8khbo=; b=E2JXSflVkliwExtfsUlW1C/pYKdltHr2Sy/YkFpP7fsEy9cLPO2XD/8GgnXrHjsk6Xq2+nf3rRXARj8ZFAbN8K6tXVJPtSQDVsq0UAgDQrp8SJGbOunwxM0rwNHcBCAG7ValsXXjtm2vEuv37E1VruxTQw3jhRLBTAHT4TBTeiE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=od0zKbDMyST70MdNweDKuC33WBtjZkOsTZRDFSWE1UTFaWLY9KHk3xa4zXEjZ0fFHrX7HbjT4AacIB1tueYSKdyhMjZs8bCqnRN7U6c7OnjauYsKcLR5qtLplZBeyVnfyjB7ULoYXaL7R98pnRfslIVHVUkNgzGpXwVrGjTFY0Y= Received: by 10.65.133.8 with SMTP id k8mr1916503qbn.1189699766184; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.107.5 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:09:25 +0200 From: "Frits Hoogland" To: "oracle-l@freelists.org" Subject: Re: oracle and vmware ESX In-Reply-To: <10668188.99131189695922636.JavaMail.seven@aomfe4p1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24445_3311446.1189699766175" References: <10668188.99131189695922636.JavaMail.seven@aomfe4p1> X-archive-position: 1522 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: frits.hoogland@gmail.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: frits.hoogland@gmail.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain ------=_Part_24445_3311446.1189699766175 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 9/13/07, Amar Kumar Padhi wrote: > > Hi Frits, > Thanks for the note, I checked this doc with oracle support. I have been > told that the document talks about the stand taken by oracle support, but in > no way means that oracle is Supported/Certified on VM. We came to know the > below, I am giving you the main ones- > > What is not certified is not Supported. > > If oracle will not look at your production on VM and ask you to Simulate > on native, it means oracle will Support your native box only, because you > paid for the license. They will not guarantee any fixes on VM. > > We identified issues coming on VM that we could not simulate on Native. > > We deal with huge critical dbs and can't afford the risk. > > i suggest you raise an SR with oracle to understand licensing > implications. We did and we came to know the risks. If you have done this > already, ignore my saying. > > Rest your call. > > P.S.: can we post our comments to list also, Others can > benefit/contribute... > > thanks! > amar kumar padhi > www.amar-padhi.com > pushed from PDA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Frits Hoogland" > To: "Amar Kumar Padhi" > Sent: 13/09/07 15:07 > Subject: Re: oracle and vmware ESX > > document id: *249212.1 > *this document states oracle products running on vmware will be supported, > but it is not explicitly certified. > there is no 'not supported' in it... > > frits > > On 9/13/07, Amar Kumar Padhi wrote: > > > > Please give me the Note number. I have an SR that has clear feedback > from > > Oracle Stating this. Yes there are notes on metalink but each has the > > statement "it is not supported" in it. > > > > I actually want to see "is supported" Statement from Oracle. > > > > thanks! > > amar kumar padhi > > www.amar-padhi.com > > pushed from PDA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Frits Hoogland" > > To: "Amar Kumar Padhi" > > Sent: 13/09/07 14:05 > > Subject: Re: oracle and vmware ESX > > > > This has been investigated thorougly in our organisation too. > > The official statement of oracle is: it is supported (I can give you > > metalink note id if you want), but if a exception is encountered which > can > > be related to vmware, you need to replay the entire situation on 'bare > > metal'. > > > > Yes, I hear rumors oracle is going to do something with virtualisation. > I > > hear Xen is floating in that area. > > > > frits > > On 9/13/07, Amar Kumar Padhi wrote: > > > > > > Oracle does not support any of its products on virtual > > environment. This > > > will be use-it-at-your-own-risk case. I spoke to oracle support on > this > > > about a week back, production/dev environments will not be Supported > on > > > Virtual host, you may however use it for training/demo setups. > > > > > > We were able to simulate issues on virtual hosts that we could not do > so > > > on native host, such cases cannot be logged with oracle. > > > > > > Probably, watchout for an update from oracle in 6-8 months time. > > > > > > thanks! > > > amar kumar padhi > > > www.amar-padhi.com > > > pushed from PDA > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Frits Hoogland" > > > To: "oracle-l@freelists.org" > > > Sent: 13/09/07 12:55 > > > Subject: oracle and vmware ESX > > > > > > Has anyone real-life experience using oracle products (database, > > > application > > > server suite, EBS) on vmware ESX for "production"? > > > > > > I browsed through the documentation on the vmware site, which is poor > > (or > > > non-existent one might say) from a technical point of view. > > > > > > More specific: > > > -The memory 'balloon' driver. > > > I've gotten some virtual machines (with oracle application server on > it) > > > which turned to an unreachable state. My guess is the balloon driver > > > interfering with some memory hungry processes (like java), which hung > > the > > > machine. Anyone using the balloon driver along with db, app or EBS? > (we > > > have > > > turned the balloon driver off) > > > -Priorisation and/or resource management. > > > AFAIK and have read across the internet (no thanks to vmware > > > documentation), > > > my conclusion is CPU and memory can be specifically allocated to a > > > designated virtual machine. (is that correct?) But how about NIC > usage? > > > HBA > > > usage? IO in general? > > > I've read about priorisation on a "fair share" basis. Can anybody > > explain > > > what that means? > > > To my current understanding there is no "real" guarantee about > anything > > > other than CPU and memory. > > > If so, this means virtual machines who's performance are depended on > > > anything other than CPU and memory can directly influence each other. > > > -IO. > > > I know disks can be used in the regular way, and directly from the > > virtual > > > machine. Is that correct, and is there an advantage (probably IO > speed?) > > > disadvantages (non-managebility, no live migration for example?) > > > > > > frits > > > > > > > > > > > > ------=_Part_24445_3311446.1189699766175 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 9/13/07, Amar Kumar Padhi <amar.padhi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Frits,
Thanks for the note, I checked this doc with oracle support. I have been told that the document talks about the stand taken by oracle support, but in no way means that oracle is Supported/Certified on VM. We came to know the below, I am giving you the main ones-

What is not certified is not Supported.

If oracle will not look at your production on VM and ask you to Simulate on native, it means oracle will Support your native box only, because you paid for the license. They will not  guarantee any fixes on VM.

We identified issues coming on VM that we could not simulate on Native.

We deal with huge critical dbs and can't afford the risk.

i suggest you raise an SR with oracle to understand licensing implications. We did and we came to know the risks. If you have done this already, ignore my saying.

Rest your call.

P.S.: can we post our comments to list also, Others can benefit/contribute...

thanks!
amar kumar padhi
www.amar-padhi.com
pushed from PDA


-----Original Message-----
From: "Frits Hoogland" <frits.hoogland@gmail.com>
To: "Amar Kumar Padhi" < amar.padhi@gmail.com>
Sent: 13/09/07 15:07
Subject: Re: oracle and vmware ESX

document id: *249212.1
*this document states oracle products running on vmware will be supported,
but it is not explicitly certified.
there is no 'not supported' in it...

frits

On 9/13/07, Amar Kumar Padhi <amar.padhi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please give me the Note number. I have an SR that has clear feedback from
> Oracle Stating this. Yes there are notes on metalink but each has the
> statement "it is not supported" in it.
>
> I actually want to see "is supported" Statement from Oracle.
>
> thanks!
> amar kumar padhi
> www.amar-padhi.com
> pushed from PDA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Frits Hoogland" < frits.hoogland@gmail.com>
> To: "Amar Kumar Padhi" <amar.padhi@gmail.com>
> Sent: 13/09/07 14:05
> Subject: Re: oracle and vmware ESX
>
> This has been investigated thorougly in our organisation too.
> The official statement of oracle is: it is supported (I can give you
> metalink note id if you want), but if a exception is encountered which can
> be related to vmware, you need to replay the entire situation on 'bare
> metal'.
>
> Yes, I hear rumors oracle is going to do something with virtualisation. I
> hear Xen is floating in that area.
>
> frits
> On 9/13/07, Amar Kumar Padhi <amar.padhi@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oracle does not support any of its products on virtual
> environment.  This
> > will be use-it-at-your-own-risk case. I spoke to oracle support on this
> > about a week back, production/dev environments will not be Supported on
> > Virtual host, you may however use it for training/demo setups.
> >
> > We were able to simulate issues on virtual hosts that we could not do so
> > on native host, such cases cannot be logged with oracle.
> >
> > Probably, watchout for an update from oracle in 6-8 months time.
> >
> > thanks!
> > amar kumar padhi
> > www.amar-padhi.com
> > pushed from PDA
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Frits Hoogland" <frits.hoogland@gmail.com>
> > To: "oracle-l@freelists.org" < oracle-l@freelists.org>
> > Sent: 13/09/07 12:55
> > Subject: oracle and vmware ESX
> >
> > Has anyone real-life experience using oracle products (database,
> > application
> > server suite, EBS) on vmware ESX for "production"?
> >
> > I browsed through the documentation on the vmware site, which is poor
> (or
> > non-existent one might say) from a technical point of view.
> >
> > More specific:
> > -The memory 'balloon' driver.
> > I've gotten some virtual machines (with oracle application server on it)
> > which turned to an unreachable state. My guess is the balloon driver
> > interfering with some memory hungry processes (like java), which hung
> the
> > machine. Anyone using the balloon driver along with db, app or EBS? (we
> > have
> > turned the balloon driver off)
> > -Priorisation and/or resource management.
> > AFAIK and have read across the internet (no thanks to vmware
> > documentation),
> > my conclusion is CPU and memory can be specifically allocated to a
> > designated virtual machine. (is that correct?) But how about NIC usage?
> > HBA
> > usage? IO in general?
> > I've read about priorisation on a "fair share" basis. Can anybody
> explain
> > what that means?
> > To my current understanding there is no "real" guarantee about anything
> > other than CPU and memory.
> > If so, this means virtual machines who's performance are depended on
> > anything other than CPU and memory can directly influence each other.
> > -IO.
> > I know disks can be used in the regular way, and directly from the
> virtual
> > machine. Is that correct, and is there an advantage (probably IO speed?)
> > disadvantages (non-managebility, no live migration for example?)
> >
> > frits
> >
> >
>
>


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