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RE: Why an organization would need an enterprise DB team

From: Robert Freeman <>
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:07:09 -0600
Message-ID: <>

Just to chime in a bit since this is somewhat related to a presentation I'm doing at Collaborate...

I agree with Dennis, we have to get closer to where the work is! We old DBA/DA types need to keep up. Data modeling really has not kept up with Object modeling well, and now with evolutionary development methods like Agile out there, we really are going to have to get caught up or we are going to find we will be left behind. I don't think that companies are going to be content to slow down application development so the database designer/architect/developer can "Get it right" up front anymore and we have to find a better way to work.

I will be discussing this topic and some of my experiences working with Agile development teams at Collaborate in my presentation Evolutionary Database Development in an Agile World. This is a totally new kind of presentation for me!

I have to admit that in the last year my approach to database development and design has changed a great deal (and I was a hard sell)... I now believe that it is *HYPER* CRITICAL to success that the development DBA be in the same work area as the development staff (thats not to say you can't have a separate production team if you like, or perhaps a separate core team providing core database services). I also believe that we have to embrace the concept that there is no way you are going to get everything right up-front and that data driven database development, in many cases (note, I don't say all cases) is not the best and most cost efficient way of doing things. I will also probably sound like a total heretic when I say that passing some of the DDL responsibilities to the developers is critical to rapid and successful development.

Of course, regardless of what I've said I'm finding that it's hard to change my thinking and ways of doing things.... but I refuse to become a dinosaur and claim there is not a better way... I just want to see the proof and with some of the evolutionary approaches I've seen some.

So, if any of you are coming to collaborate, common down to my session and let's talk about this topic!! I don't claim to be an expert on Agile or database design or development but I have done my share.


Robert G. Freeman
Oracle Press Author
Collaborate '07
Come join my APEX University Session
and Join me to talk about Evolutionary Database Development!!   -----Original Message-----
[]On Behalf Of Dennis Williams   Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 3:05 PM
  Subject: Re: Why an organization would need an enterprise DB team


  I think what they are trying to accomplish is to get DBA work closer to the application people. Usually your opportunity to influence design is near the beginning. If you only review their design before it goes into production, usually they are close to a deadline and no time to modify anything.

      One suggestion would be to have the application DBAs sit with the application developers but still report to the central team. Also you could suggest that DBAs be rotated so everyone isn't stuck on 24/7 support all the time, and get a chance to broaden their skills.

      Some organizations have the position of architect.

  Dennis Williams

  On 3/17/07, EPA <> wrote:     Hi guys,

    I guess I was not enough clear. The coming re-org wants to separate the DBAs between 1) operational (backup, recovery, upgrade...) and 2) application (logical design, physical design,...) and move the 2nd group to application services team. This means they will report and follow AS managers/directors. And I would like to proof and keep them in one group.

    I don't have any doubt about having DBA competency in development team, what I am looking is the cons if we separate the team and pros if we keep them together.

    Thanks again,

    Estifan Panosian


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Received on Sun Mar 18 2007 - 17:07:09 CDT

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