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RE: hanging shutdowns

From: <>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:30:53 -0500
Message-ID: <>

I think we're all preaching to the choir at this point.....;-) Hot backups: good, cold backups: not really necessary.

I think the problem is the legal department at Robyn's company, and whether fighting that battle is a career-limiting move for her. Some battles aren't worth fighting.

If it were me, I'd clearly state my objections to my boss, with clearly thought-out arguments as to why cold backups are an unnecessary waste of time, preferably in an email with a timestamp on it. Then, wait for someone (with clout and political leverage) to complain about the nightly downtime....and then, ahem, re-open the discussion...;-)

Mark J. Bobak
Senior Oracle Architect
ProQuest Information & Learning

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-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Powell, Mark D
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:20 AM
To: Oracle-L_at_Freelists
Subject: RE: hanging shutdowns

>> None of us doubt that the hot backups are adequate for recovery. <<

From multiple personal experiences with a live production system manual
hot backups work!  I have never had to recover a live production
database using rman.  That I have only done in practice, but I believe
Oracle and others that the tool does in fact work.

There is nothing wrong with cold backups.  A cold backup provides a
consistent point in time recovery from which a forward recovery can be
done, but unlike with a hot backup does not have to be done.  This makes
cold backups (or a copy) excellent for sending offsite to a disaster
recovery site.  No archive logs have to be sent with it.  But cold
backups require a window.  When the database is large enough that just
copying all the files takes several hours the time usually does not
exist to perform a cold backup.  So hot backups were made available to
eliminate the need to stop the database while the backup is made.

I think someone needs to question the reasoning behind legal's opinion.

HTH -- Mark D Powell --

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Robyn
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:58 AM
Cc: Oracle-L_at_Freelists
Subject: Re: hanging shutdowns


I understand your position and when I arrived here, I made all the same
arguments.  I've been told that our legal department insists on a cold
backup, and the requirement is non-negotiable.  We run full test
recoveries on all our major systems on a regular basis and we use the
hot backups to do so.  None of us doubt that the hot backups are
adequate for recovery.

So I guess we're not really 24x7, we're 24x7-15 and that 15 minutes is a
sacred cow that I need to leave alone right now ...

Thanks for the input and if I was calling the shots,  I wouldn't do it
this way.  However, I would still need a script that would shut the
database down quickly, possibly for maintenance or hardware issues, so I
really appreciate the suggestions provided on this thread.


On 2/27/06, Michael Haddon <> wrote:

> I definitely agree, the shutdown is not the problem, it is doing what
> it is supposed to do in order to maintain data integrity and preserve > transactions. The real questions is 'why do you shutdown at all??', I > haven't been forced to perform a cold backup on a schedule in years. I > thought 7X24 really meant 7X24. If the production environment can deal > with the downtime necessary to perform cold backups, then couldn't > that time be used to perform batch transactions or some other necessary task. >
> I would recommend spending some time on hot backups and showing your
> boss that the software is a little smarter these days and a complete, > point in time/ or some other time recovery is easy. Take a few > days/weeks and show him that you can give him an exact copy of his > production system anytime he wants it. Make him comfortable and your > cold backups will be a thing of the past, otherwise, get another boss! >
> Just my .02
> Mike
> -- -- --
Received on Tue Feb 28 2006 - 09:30:53 CST

Original text of this message