From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Mon Aug 29 16:41:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from air891.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j7TLfFqs028313 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 16:41:15 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air891.startdedicated.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j7TLfDIP028297 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 16:41:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ADA351E7835; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 16:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15218-09; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 16:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 282FB1E7621; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 16:41:09 -0500 (EST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=a2nrOVjw0xqMgo9Cletjm0FLdYEPLQ13b52wShZhNOITVJ6Zzi+Vz3fpY5IAxxSvlkxPJsGareCiNZvJkN8WjiRdVCkk/b6lzyE56yirrOVKoJOlDzeZylv8WjkF087D068l7R9nIdZAux6ohXC3/YVRO/O0lhw3jV4KM9sAFVw= Message-ID: <910046b4050829143923bb48a4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:39:18 -0400 From: Paul Drake To: Carel-Jan Engel Subject: Re: Snapshot Logfile Cc: "oracle-l@freelists.org" In-Reply-To: <1125343861.19288.183.camel@dbalert199.dbalert.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1138_26136865.1125351558078" References: <1125223742.19288.126.camel@dbalert199.dbalert.nl> <1125256544.19288.142.camel@dbalert199.dbalert.nl> <910046b4050829101428e7345d@mail.gmail.com> <1125343861.19288.183.camel@dbalert199.dbalert.nl> X-archive-position: 24708 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bdbafh@gmail.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: bdbafh@gmail.com X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-mailscan-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mailscan-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on air891.startdedicated.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=2.63 ------=_Part_1138_26136865.1125351558078 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 8/29/05, Carel-Jan Engel wrote: >=20 > Hi Paul, >=20 > Your solution is definitely a good step forward in ruling out=20 > role-specific namings in directories/SIDs/DB-names. I prefer not to use t= he=20 > %_file_name_convert parameters. As you wrote, it adds (some/a little)=20 > complexity to the setup. I personally prefer a symmetric setup.=20 >=20 > I can imagine though that a setup according to your suggestion works out= =20 > in some situations. IMHO, however, a symmetric setup is less error-prone,= =20 > and more intuitive to me. The fact that I do not prefer it, doesn't mean = it=20 > is wrong though! I think we are getting close to a matter of 'taste', in= =20 > stead of 'good or wrong'. >=20 > It depends on the people involved, and the situation in the company. When= =20 > both sites are managed by 1 or 2 DBA's, and maybe at a distance of 30 KM,= =20 > (or less than 1 KM!), even EAST and WEST doesn't mean that much. Talking= =20 > USA, east and west coast, and staff involved that might have never met ea= ch=20 > other is different.=20 >=20 > The thing is, when I work in a symmetric setup, I don't have to care abou= t=20 > anything in directory structures. I can use simple copy commands like 'sc= p=20 > -pr * otherhost:`pwd`', which will simply send everything from this=20 > directory to the equivalennt at the otherhost. I can even share (most of)= my=20 > parameterfiles among both instances.=20 >=20 > I don't use SPFILEs. I use 5 files in a OFA 'pfile' dir: > generic_.ora - contains all parameters equal for each role > primary_.ora - contains all primary-role specific parameters=20 > standby_.ora - contains all standby-role specific parameters > init_p.ora - contains IFILE=3D lines for generic and primary > init_s.ora - contains IFILE=3D lines for generic and standby >=20 > The init.ora no longer exists, neither the symlink in=20 > $ORACLE_HOME/dbs. So, it is impossible to start the database without a=20 > pfile=3D option. The DBA has either to script the thing, or think what ro= le he=20 > wants to activate. The script-set I implement at my customers' sites take= s=20 > care of it all, of course. >=20 > The generic_.ora is identical on all sites, and can be copied to all= =20 > sites easily after a change. The primary and standby files have some=20 > site-specific parameters, and cannot be replicated. No need to tell that= =20 > this works very well in commandline based teams extremely well, and proba= bly=20 > not as well at GUI-based sites.=20 >=20 > When the server that hosts the standby hosts another database in a primar= y=20 > role (to make the costs of an 'idle' server more acceptable), one can mov= e=20 > memory sizing parameters from the generic to the role-specific files, usi= ng=20 > different sizing depending on the role. >=20 > Not very much a strong advice in favor of or against your suggestion, but= =20 > merely a soft opinion this time, however still hoping it helps, >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Carel-Jan Engel >=20 > =3D=3D=3D > If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok) > =3D=3D=3D Carel-Jan, Perhaps I had a bit too much of an east coast USA centric mindset on this= =20 one. D'oh. Your mile^H^H^H^Hkilometer-age may vary. :) Paul ------=_Part_1138_26136865.1125351558078 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 8/29/05, Carel-Jan Engel <cjpengel.dbalert@xs4all.nl> w= rote:
=20 =20 Hi Paul,

Your solution is definitely a good step forward in ruling out role-specific namings in directories/SIDs/DB-names. I prefer not to use the %_file_name_convert parameters. As you wrote, it adds (some/a little) complexity to the setup. I personally prefer a symmetric setup.

I can imagine though that a setup according to your suggestion works out in some situations.  IMHO, however, a symmetric setup is less error-prone, and more intuitive to me. The fact that I do not prefer it, doesn't mean it is wrong though! I think we are getting close to a matter of 'taste', in stead of 'good or wrong'.

It depends on the people involved, and the situation in the company. When both sites are managed by 1 or 2 DBA's, and maybe at a distance of 30 KM, (or less than 1 KM!), even EAST and WEST doesn't mean that much. Talking USA, east and west coast, and staff involved that might have never met each other is different.

The thing is, when I work in a symmetric setup, I don't have to care about anything in directory structures. I can use simple copy commands like 'scp -pr * otherhost:`pwd`', which will simply send everything from this directory to the equivalennt at the otherhost. I can even share (most of) my parameterfiles among both instances.

I don't use SPFILEs. I use 5 files in a OFA 'pfile' dir:
generic_<SID>.ora  - contains all parameters equal for each role=
primary_<SID>.ora  - contains all primary-role specific paramete= rs    
standby_<SID>.ora - contains all standby-role specific parameters
init<SID>_p.ora - contains IFILE=3D lines for generic and primary
init<SID>_s.ora - contains IFILE=3D lines for generic and standby

The init<SID>.ora no longer exists, neither the symlink in $ORACLE_HOME/dbs. So, it is impossible to start the database without a pfile=3D option. The DBA has either to script the thing, or think what role he wants to activate. The script-set I implement at my customers' sites takes care of it all, of course.

The generic_<SID>.ora is identical on all sites, and can be copied to all sites easily after a change. The primary and standby files have some site-specific parameters, and cannot be replicated. No need to tell that this works very well in commandline based teams extremely well, and probably not as well at GUI-based sites.

When the server that hosts the standby hosts another database in a primary role (to make the costs of an 'idle' server more acceptable), one can move memory sizing parameters from the generic to the role-specific files, using different sizing depending on the role.

Not very much a strong advice in favor of or against your suggestion, but merely a soft opinion this time, however still hoping it helps,

Best regards,

Carel-Jan Engel

=3D=3D=3D
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
=3D=3D=3D

Carel-Jan,

Perhaps I had a bit too much of an east coast USA centric mindset on this o= ne.
D'oh.
Your mile^H^H^H^Hkilometer-age may vary. :)

Paul

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