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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> Grid ... Was: Is RAC DOA?

Grid ... Was: Is RAC DOA?

From: Mogens Nørgaard <mln_at_miracleas.dk>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:56:20 +0200
Message-ID: <41211F74.2050304@miracleas.dk>


Fundamentally, it's always a problem when a lot of bright people don't understand immediately what a vendor means by a certain word.

It's either because it's so incredibly revolutionary in its entire concept that the bright people, who usually understand most of what comes out from this vendor, are left by the wayside. Or it's because it's not what the vendor claims it is.

So let's say that the Grid idea is completely, utterly revolutionary, and that most of us - for the first time in our Oracle-lives - don't understand it. The amazing thing is that all Oracle-employees seem to understand it (although they all have different ways of explaining what it is and what it really consists of). This proves that Oracle's employees are way, way smarter (not just smarter) than people not employed by Oracle.

I'm not saying this is not the case. I'm just saying it's an amazing fact in itself. I've argued before, that the general feeling inside Oracle is that people outside of its firewalls are not, uhm, the Einsteins of the World. In fact, I've noticed that the second people walk out of Oracle's door to start a new job outside of Oracle, they immediately become rather dim. Something happens in that door, Mladen!

The Grid is not a product, it's a concept. Well, that's nice. And I'm sure saying that transportable tablespaces and RAC and various queueing stuff allows you to construct a grid is true. But it becomes a sort of circular argumentation. I'm pretty sure that just as we see the Oracle RAC folks making fun of OPS today, a couple of years from now some Oracle folks will make fun of the Grid they are telling people to believe in today.

You can't buy something called a "grid" from Oracle. You can buy various technologies from Oracle which allows you to put something together which Oracle will then declare to be "a grid".

So the vision is to deliver computing resources like water or electricity is being delivered today, where various producers can supplement each other.

I do find fault with this comparison, which in my view is one of the worst over-simplifications ever done by the S&M people of the World.

Imagine a world (Planet) where you're told that the current (sorry, joke un-intended) electricity you're using is out-dated. You will need to go to the newer version of electricity, which happens to be 342 Volts and 42 Amps - and the plugs in your wall will need to be "upgraded" to a new model with seven different sized and shaped thingies to fit into each other.

Imagine a Planet where you're informed that Water version 1 is not really the future. Instead, Water version 2 will be delivered beginning of next Summer, and version 1 will no longer be supported. Version 2 will require a few changes in your house: First of all, you'd better get used to the fact, that only hot water will be delivered. No cold water anymore - but we suggest you buy an extra cold-water server for this purpose in case you still require this out-dated service. Second, since you will no longer need to have special handles for hot and cold water, it is suggested to change all your appliances to new, more sturdy types that can take all the hot water (which, by the way, comes with a much higher pressure, so better check the state of your pipes).

IT is not like that. One day it might be, but I really cannot imagine how it can be that. Requires much vodka.

Shifting resources is not a simple task, and many things have to be considered. I'm sure Oracle is busy finding out how to address a lot of these mysterious and wonderful possibilities. But it's stretching it a byte and a bit declaring this to be a ready-to-buy thing.

When the explanation for something apparently very technical is filled with S&M buzzwords there's a reason.

Mogens

MacGregor, Ian A. wrote:

> I'm a bit confused here. Hereogeneous means of different origin. I thought inside a cluster things had to be the same. They had to be homogeneous; i.e., of the same origin. I also thought the problem with Oracle is that you need to create a single large cluster instead of allowing you to have multiple clusters which can communicate with each other. So with the Orcle grid software, when you learn of hardware vendor going out of the machine business, and you can buy scores or hundreds of machines on the cheap. You have to pass.
>
>
> Ian MacGregor
> Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> ian_at_SLAC.Stanford.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Fink [mailto:Daniel.Fink_at_Sun.COM]
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:46 AM
> To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
> Subject: Re: Is RAC DOA?
>
> Extend that question into the realm of 'grid' computing. RAC requires a heterogeneous environment within the cluster. This means that a RAC cluster is not really grid friendly. It is only able to 'shift' processing requirements within itself and cannot take advantage of that underutilized server sitting next to it in the data center. I asked this question of an Oracle employee recently and the response was that RAC does indeed fit into Oracle's grid strategy, but there are not any plans to enable a homogenous RAC system. Am I missing something?
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> Jesse, Rich wrote:
>

>>I'll add that until <buzzword>hetergeneous clusters</buzzword> are supported, your availability is only good until your next patch (Oracle, OS, or 3rd party).  When you patch one, you most likely need to patch all at the same time.  In the case of Oracle patches, it's mandatory at least thru 9.2.
>>Rich
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:48 AM
>>Subject: RE: Is RAC DOA?
>>
>>
>>One slight quibble, regarding increased availability.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>mwf

>
>
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Received on Mon Aug 16 2004 - 15:52:08 CDT

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