From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jul 10 23:15:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from air189.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6B4EYV14912 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:14:44 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air189.startdedicated.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i6B4ED614907 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:14:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7023172C262; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32052-84; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6555572C2F9; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:55:02 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:53:33 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Delivered-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F0BBE72C09C for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:53:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31600-97 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:53:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.sagelogix.com (unknown [69.15.85.3]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4A7FD72C041 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:53:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.sagelogix.com (Postfix, from userid 16) id 035A5A8443; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ocs.sagelogix.com (ocs.sagelogix.com [192.168.25.20]) by mail.sagelogix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D502BA875F for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 0-1pool84-185.nas31.thornton1.co.us.da.qwest.net by ocs.sagelogix.com with ESMTP id 11502731089519378; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:16:18 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:18:23 -0600 Subject: Re: ASP DBAs From: Tim Gorman To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on mail.sagelogix.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=3.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,WHOLESALE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-archive-position: 4814 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@sagelogix.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: oracle-l@freelists.org X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org My opinion, for what it is worth... The creation of standards has no purpose for its own sake. Rather, the clear purpose is the wholesale automation of regularly-scheduled and routine tasks. Can't do that if each database is a "customized" configuration. Automation in turn leads to constant improvement of one's skills, as freedom from lesser tasks allows more rewarding higher-function tasks and research. Personally, I've found work as a DBA for an ASP to be very educational. Just have to dump Korn shell and learn Perl to truly achieve spiritual creaminess, Iım told... On the other hand, the hours are excruciating and the impact on personal time is significant. If all of the routine tasks are automated, then you have to learn (and have permission!) to grab sleep and personal time when you can get it, because when things go wrong, they often do so in an extravagant way. One mistake I've made in the past was to keep a "regular" 9-5 schedule regardless of whether automation left me with nothing to do. Of course, some of that time can be filled with the "improvement" activities I was mentioning, but it is important to realize that the long hours waiting for a tape restore to spin are good for that too. Many managers are uncomfortable with DBAs not being "at work" during regular business hours. Then, when trouble hits, generally during off-hours, I end up with 40-hr days, and it's getting tougher and tougher to shake those off... Just my $0.02... on 7/10/04 8:53 PM, Mohan, Ross at RMohan@arbinet.com wrote: > Dennis, > > thanks for thoughtful and thought-provoking reply. > > I guess there is more volatility ( new apps, upgrades, migrations, new > customers, etc) and > less volatility (tighter standards maintenance, more teamwork, fewer "just > this once" databases, fixes, etc) > > I'd imagine ASP DBAs need more/better in the way of monitoring and > alerting.....and going out > on a limb, i'd imagine they are *more* likely to do SA and DBA work -- can't > back this up by > experience as I have none, but my gut tells me that. > > My concern is that life as an ASP DBA would be a hamster wheel tedium of > upgrades, patches and answering the same question for seventy different > clients...and that it would be harder to fix problems > because of the isolated/distributed nature of the clients, and the fact that > they'd be more likely to > be using canned crApplications. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:DWILLIAMS@LIFETOUCH.COM] > Sent: Fri 7/9/2004 8:58 PM > To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org' > Cc: > Subject: RE: ASP DBAs > > > > Ross > I'm hardly an expert, but based on my limited exposure to ASP DBAs, I'll > give my opinions and that may provoke some more expert opinion. > I think the major differences at an ASP (and this may depend on the > specific ASP) is that you may be more visible. If the ASP is hosting > specific applications then you need to be expert in how those applications > interact with the database. Presumably handling a variety of versions of the > > application, migrating customers between versions, etc. If the ASP is > offering the database as a product, then you will be more visible to the > customers. > In theory you are supporting many databases. So creating standards so all > > the databases look alike could be key. Or obeying the standards of a large > team. Most of us support many databases, but my assumption is that at an ASP > > the situation would be more volatile, bringing up new customers, moving > customers from one server to another, etc. > To me the key issue is that the customer needs to have clearly > communicated what you are and what you aren't doing. Most of the unhappiness > > results when the customer thinks you are taking care of all issues and your > understanding is that you are taking care of a limited amount. > Monitoring is a big deal at least being able to tell a good story for > potential customers. > Enjoy working weird hours and weekends. > > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > dwilliams@lifetouch.com > I said it "looked" clear - Riddick > > > -----Original Message----- > From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org > [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org > ]On Behalf Of Mohan, Ross > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 10:19 AM > To: oracle-l@freelists.org > Subject: RE: ASP DBAs > > > LoL...nice.... > Yes, Application Service Provider. I was trying to be hip and fit in with > the in-crowd > by using acronyms and got myself into a RAC of trouble. I guess I'll just > have to get > into my yoga pose and hum "OEMMMM" until things get better. > But...on topic...i am trying to find out more about the life of a hardcore > ASP DBA. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html -----------------------------------------------------------------