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RE: Newbies welcome, or not?

From: Michael Milligan <>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:13:01 -0500
Message-ID: <>

Here, to me, is the whole point, as spoken by Denham Eva:

"As for humor, it is all well and good but as I remind my kids, it isn't funny anymore when it
gets personal."

Mladen is one of the most intelligent and knowledgeable people I know of on this list. When used properly, he has a good sense of humor. But when his humor becomes destructive, biting and personal, it is too much and has no place here. Those who like it, like Rachel and a few others, perhaps would not were it directed at them. I don't like it, whether directed at me or others. Can anyone who likes that kind of humor show me an example of it directed at them?

Whoever said Mladen was "driven" off this site needs a reality check. I would welcome him back, even though, if I were to guess, it would be that his contempt for me is greater than for anyone else on this list. AS I said, he is intelligent and likable. And then a switch turns, and the good natured ribbing becomes merciless mocking of the most denigrating nature. Having witnessed so much of it growing up in the 50's and 60's - I'm 51 - I can never seem to get myself to stand idly by without a protest, especially when it is directed at a newbie.

Myself, I have been told by him that the fact that I have an OCP (which I have never felt or portrayed as something that proved me a good DBA because I am positive it doesn't) is a testament to the weakness of the program and easiness of the exams. I've been told much worse and more personal as well. All those who defend his merciless mocking as though it were good-natured ribbing do not only the list a disservice, but Mladen and themselves as well. Somehow, he doesn't see the bright line that most see, when ribbing turns to cruelty, and takes that giant leap forward as though it were a baby step of small degree, while a few on here keep telling him, "it's OK, they're asking stupid questions, and you've taught me a lot, so go ahead and vulcanize them with your cruel wit. We'll back you, laugh with you, or just ignore it."

It has reached the point where it isn't funny anymore.

Michael Patrick Milligan
Salt Lake City, Utah

-----Original Message-----

From: Denham Eva [] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:18 AM
Subject: RE: Newbies welcome, or not?

Another point of view.

I started out very inexperienced (as we all did). One of the most important solutions to a problem I had was supplied by Rachel, who had in one mail answered and given me my solution. Now that solution was by no means evident at first. The scenario was the production server would refuse further connections to the database after about 100 sessions (Dedicated Server), obviously test system worked fine, I scurried around reading, searching, rtfm-ing like mad. One comment from Rachel in that mail sent me rtfm-ing and hence the solution and that was something along the line of "It sounds as if you need to enable MTS" followed by more info. Now this sort of solution is not that evident in the documentation, at least not three years ago, to a seriously stressed, still on three month performance evaluation, badly in need of a break DBA. I am still here thanks to Rachel's help. (Thanks Rachel!)

I would encourage all listers that we should not reject newbies (we too were there once); also to keep in mind that we don't know what stress/pressure that person on the other side of that keyboard is under. Have you ever tried reading the FM when the production system has gone belly up? Not to mention we DBAs are non-entities until that DB is down, then even the Managing Director, IT Director stand over your shoulder scowling "What the h*ll are you reading for? Do Something!" It after all looks more impressive if you are actually typing something. I know I've been there!

But, on the flip side you all have valid points. As for humor, it is all well and good but as I remind my kids, it isn't funny anymore when it gets personal.

My 0.02c worth
Denham =20

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Received on Tue Jun 29 2004 - 10:13:24 CDT

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