From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Mon Jun 28 14:17:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from air189.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5SJHMd15199 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:17:32 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air189.startdedicated.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5SJH9615175 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:17:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8C55972CA0E; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25705-17; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A4B0772C996; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:58:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Delivered-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 67F5872C191 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24744-91 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtpgate.vicr.com (smtpgate.vicr.com [207.141.187.5]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DE03472C077 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:58:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from 25exch1.vicorpower.vicr.com ([172.20.20.30]) by exchgate.vicorpower.vicr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:20:46 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: RE: Newbies welcome, or not? Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:20:46 -0400 Message-ID: <4001DEAF7DF9BD498B58B45051FBEA650146C45E@25exch1.vicorpower.vicr.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Newbies welcome, or not? Thread-Index: AcRdRHN5rC0xnvy8R3K5oR5Ceb8ZmgAADEWg From: "Goulet, Dick" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2004 19:20:46.0287 (UTC) FILETIME=[034F45F0:01C45D45] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org X-archive-position: 3863 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: DGoulet@vicr.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: oracle-l@freelists.org X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org I still remember the extremely well seasoned HP tech who issued an "rm = -fr" from "/" while logged on as root on a production server with a = database that was running in production at the time. Wouldn't you know = that the server did exactly what he asked it to do.!? Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -----Original Message----- From: Michael Milligan [mailto:Michael.Milligan@ingenix.com] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 3:09 PM To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org' Subject: RE: Newbies welcome, or not? Perfectly put. I agree completely. -----Original Message----- From: Jared.Still@radisys.com [mailto:Jared.Still@radisys.com] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 12:21 PM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: Newbies welcome, or not? >=20 > ANYBODY who would type ANYTHING in as root WITHOUT knowing what it=20 > does EXACTALLY should not have root access, is not responsable=20 > enough to have root access and needs to WAKE UP and LEARN the "man"=20 command. >=20 > good lord, people, what happened to personal responsibility and=20 > professionalism? >=20 It would seem that many of us have forgotten that Scott Adams gets fodder for Dilbert from real life. As Mark Powell has pointed out, folks get thrown into the position of DBA and/or Unix admin without much prior experience, and they don't have much say in the matter, short of finding new employment. That is not always an option. They may not yet have a good concept of how unix works, and don't yet appreciate the power of root.=20 So, are we saying we should not answer newbie questions for folks that don't have a clue, and yet they are required to fill the position? Even pointing someone to the correct section of the documentation can be extremely useful. I started with Oracle 7.0.12. The documentation was quite a bit smaller than now, but it wasn't always clear which=20 doc I needed. The docs are now 20k+ pages for all the Oracle online docs. The index and search capabilities are useful, but hardly infallible. Is it too much trouble for us to point someone in the right direction? How about the less experienced listers? I often ignore simple questions, knowing that this gives an opportunity for junior folks to participate in the list, and help out those that have even less experience than they do. So, what's the consensus?=20 Should be welcome folks with little experience, or make it clear that they should come back when they know what they're doing? My vote is for trying to be helpful, even to those with annoyingly simple questions. If I don't care to answer, I leave it for someone = else. Jared ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified = that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. = If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by = replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html -----------------------------------------------------------------