From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Mon Jun 21 01:38:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from air189.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5L6c9e05913 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:38:19 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air189.startdedicated.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5L6bx605861 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:38:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 94DBE72C336; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:21:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13754-50; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:21:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D814E72C319; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:20:29 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Delivered-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7CD0672C2F1 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:20:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12198-94 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:20:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out3.xs4all.nl (smtp-out3.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.13]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DB55872C2E1 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:20:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from homecenter (213-84-218-175.adsl.xs4all.nl [213.84.218.175]) by smtp-out3.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5L6fdR6000340 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:41:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200406210641.i5L6fdR6000340@smtp-out3.xs4all.nl> From: "rob zijlstra" To: Subject: RE: DBA Hacks Book Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:41:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 thread-index: AcRWbi3rAcvsA5ZaRo2l35349vimhgA7F46w In-Reply-To: <002601c4566e$194d63b0$6401a8c0@darrell1> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org X-archive-position: 3146 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: rmsah@xs4all.nl Precedence: normal Reply-To: oracle-l@freelists.org X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org Darrell, sorry if the tone of the message offended you. Was certainly not the intention. For the rest, I could answer your points, but I think it would be pointless to start a discussion here that is rather OT. Greetings, Rob Zijlstra -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Darrell Landrum Sent: zondag 20 juni 2004 04:27 To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: Re: DBA Hacks Book DBA Hacks BookWell, Rob, that's a nice Mr. holier than thou attitude you have there. In reference to the note at hand you don't know what you're talking about. I didn't say users, I said developers and guess who developed said database, although the database is not the problem. I'm talking about high paid programmers with at least several years and several classes behind them. These people frequently do the wrong thing, often against advise and even against established standards (could go all night on the points of failure in an organization that let that happen). Then, it is not just the programmer, but the DBA as well who gets paged in the middle of the night when their production job runs long and I find a pl/sql loop which calls the same function to get a fiscal month close date to compare to each of 64,000,000 records, 64,000,000 times rather than once at the beginning of the program. This occurred some months after the reviewing DBA on the project had given them specific details on how to code this better. So, here we go again, indeed. It is not me, but you who is short sighted in this case, and I do have just cause for complaining. ----- Original Message ----- From: rob zijlstra To: oracle-l@freelists.org Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: RE: DBA Hacks Book >> I work with developers who use our databases all the time in ways that aren't anticipated but I can't discuss it without a lot of unfriendly language. Here we go again. In prehistoric times (about 1980) when I started to learn to program, one of the first things I learned that if a user does something that you hadn't anticipate, it was not the fault of the user. Of course it only meant that the programmer didn't use his brains enough to foresee these things. He should make a better program, and certainly NOT try to explain to the user that 'he shouldn't do that and that'; no, if he was a real programmer, the user could NEVER even do 'that and that'. The sentence above only means to me, that the person who developed the db in question should try to work smarter instead of complaining! Greetings, Rob Zijlstra. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html -----------------------------------------------------------------