From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 9 10:06:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from air189.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i59F6b623711 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:06:47 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air189.startdedicated.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i59F6J623666 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:06:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D059772C4CE; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:51:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06858-08; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:51:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 27C4672C28C; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:51:32 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Wed, 09 Jun 2004 09:50:14 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Delivered-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 87D0D72C11C for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:50:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05955-22 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:50:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from web80507.mail.yahoo.com (web80507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.79.77]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id B432372C118 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:50:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20040609150933.90920.qmail@web80507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.73.199.69] by web80507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:09:33 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Fuad Arshad Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question To: oracle-l@freelists.org In-Reply-To: <0186754BC82DD511B5C600B0D0AAC4D607B0078D@EXCHMN3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-268889551-1086793773=:90677" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org X-archive-position: 2352 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: fuadar@yahoo.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: oracle-l@freelists.org X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org --0-268889551-1086793773=:90677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i would agree freeman's book was instrumental when we moved over to rman. it has very specific sections to the vendor products ,legato,veritas and tivoli which lear up a lot of confusion. DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Julio Thanks for the explanation. When I said "hot backups", I was referring to the older , non-RMAN method of backing up Oracle while the database was open. I tried that years ago. If this list was available then, I have no doubt that I could have received some excellent advice that would have helped me overcome my difficulties. But that is water under the bridge. To avoid confusion, I think Oracle has tried to suggest the term on-line backup for RMAN backups while the database is open. That is the only type of RMAN backup I have performed because I figured that was the only thing that made RMAN worthwhile. And I appreciate the help that people on this list provided in helping me understand the sometimes obscure RMAN documentation. While I'm on topic of documentation, if you are going to tackle RMAN, purchase Robert Freeman's great book Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. dwilliams@lifetouch.com -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of QuijadaReina, Julio C Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:51 AM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question Dennis, Thanks. Sorry, I should have elaborated a little bit more...In your post you said: >I never got hot backup working, so I can't respond to that issue. And so, I just wanted to point out that in the process I use my prod db is never shut down and that it is not too hard to get hot backups to work with RMAN on 9.2.0 if you ever would like to try it ;-) Regards, Julio -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 10:36 AM To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org' Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question Julio Congratulations. Is there a point here somewhere? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. dwilliams@lifetouch.com -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of QuijadaReina, Julio C Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:34 AM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question Dennis, I have three databases on 9.2.0 (prod, train, and recovery catalog) and use OS schedule jobs to run a couple of scripts, which do the following: 1. Connect to the target(my prod db) and recovery catalog. I use the 'cmdfile' switch to point to a text file with the backup commands for RMAN to run. I also use the 'mslog' switch to create a log file that I can go check after the backup. 2. In the text file I have RMAN commands to resync catalog and backup prod db plus archivelog. This backs up a)datafiles, b)SPFILE, and c) Control files 3. Backup recovery catalog Once a week, I copy prod into train using the 'dup' command. And just for giggles...I connect to train Monday morning to check I got a fresh copy of prod and it has been faithful since. At no point in this process a shut down my prod db. Kind regards, Julio -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:46 AM To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org' Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question Ron Joe and Fuad make some excellent points, so I won't repeat those. I never got hot backup working, so I can't respond to that issue. Perhaps someone else on the list can. My gut reaction is that if you have something that works, has been tested, and you trust, then stick with that. As far as RMAN catalog or not, I would make the following points: - Nocatalog (controlfile mode) was enhanced considerably in 9i. - Catalog can give you a central view of all backups across your system. For example, on 9i I went nocatalog and have a script that sends me the success/failure. But if somehow the cron job stops working, I might not notice that I didn't receive an email. - Catalog mode can make upgrades frustrating. In general the catalog database must be kept at a level ahead of the target databases. - Even in catalog mode, the backup information is still stored in the controlfile, so you can still perform a distaster recovery without using the catalog. That is my standard procedure. -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of Smith, Ron L. Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 8:29 AM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question We are getting ready to start using RMAN on several new 9i Linux databases. I guess the first question would be is RMAN really that much better then using home grown dynamic hot backup scripts? We have developed these for our Oracle/NT environment and they seem to work fine. The second question would be should we use a recovery catalog? The catalog seems to add a lot of complexity to the setup and to a disaster recovery plan. Thanks! Ron Important Notice! If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is prohibited. Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- --0-268889551-1086793773=:90677 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
i would agree freeman's book was instrumental when we moved over to rman.
it has  very specific sections to the vendor products ,legato,veritas and tivoli which lear up a lot of confusion.

DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS@LIFETOUCH.COM> wrote:
Julio
Thanks for the explanation. When I said "hot backups", I was referring to
the older , non-RMAN method of backing up Oracle while the database was
open. I tried that years ago. If this list was available then, I have no
doubt that I could have received some excellent advice that would have
helped me overcome my difficulties. But that is water under the bridge.
To avoid confusion, I think Oracle has tried to suggest the term on-line
backup for RMAN backups while the database is open. That is the only type of
RMAN backup I have performed because I figured that was the only thing that
made RMAN worthwhile. And I appreciate the help that people on this list
provided in helping me understand the sometimes obscure RMAN documentation.
While I'm on topic of documentation, if you are going to tackle RMAN,
purchase Robert Freeman's great book Ora cle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams@lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of QuijadaReina, Julio C
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:51 AM
To: oracle-l@freelists.org
Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question


Dennis,

Thanks. Sorry, I should have elaborated a little bit more...In your post
you said:
>I never got hot backup working, so I can't respond to that issue.

And so, I just wanted to point out that in the process I use my prod db
is never shut down and that it is not too hard to get hot backups to
work with RMAN on 9.2.0 if you ever would like to try it ;-)

Regards,
Julio

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 10:36 AM
To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org'
Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question

Julio
Congratulations. Is there a point here somewhere?

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams@lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of QuijadaReina, Julio C
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:34 AM
To: oracle-l@freelists.org
Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question


Dennis,

I have three databases on 9.2.0 (prod, train, and recovery catalog) and
use OS schedule jobs to run a couple of scripts, which do the following:

1. Connect to the target(my prod db) and recovery catalog. I use the
'cmdfile' switch to point to a text file with the backup commands for
RMAN to run. I also use the 'mslog' switch to create a log file that I
can go check after the backup.
2. In the text file I have RMAN commands to resync catalog and backup
prod db plus archivelog. This backs up a)datafiles, b)SPFILE, and c)
Control files 3. Backup recovery catalog

Once a week, I copy prod into train using the 'dup' command. And just
for giggles...I connect to train Monday morning to check I got a fresh
copy of prod and it has been faithful since.

At no point in this process a shut down my prod db.

Kind regards,
Julio


-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:46 AM
To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org'
Subject: RE: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question

Ron
Joe and Fuad make some excellent points, so I won't repeat those.
I never got hot backup working, so I can't respond to that issue.
Perhaps someone else on the list can. My gut reaction is that if you
have something that works, has been tested, and you trust, then stick
with that.

As far as RMAN catalog or not, I would make the following points:
- Nocatalog (controlfile mode) was enhanced considerably in 9i.
- Catalog can give you a central view of all backups across your
system.
For example, on 9i I went nocatalog and have a script that sends me the
success/failure. But if somehow the cron job stops working, I might not
notice that I didn't receive an email.
- Catalog mode can make upgrades frustrating. In general the catalog
database must be kept at a level ahead of the target databases.
- Even in catalog mode, the backup information is still stored in the
controlfile, so you can still perform a distaster recovery without using
the catalog. That is my standard procedure.


-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On
Behalf Of Smith, Ron L.Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 8:29 AM
To: oracle-l@freelists.org
Subject: RMAN - To Catalog or not to catalog, that is the question


We are getting ready to start using RMAN on several new 9i Linux
databases.
I guess the first question would be is RMAN really that much better then
using home grown dynamic hot backup scripts? We have developed these
for our Oracle/NT environment and they seem to work fine.
The second question would be should we use a recovery catalog? The
catalog seems to add a lot of complexity to the setup and to a disaster
recovery plan.

Thanks!
Ron

Important Notice!
If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, any use,
distribution or copying of the message is prohibited.
Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have received
this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message.
Thank you.

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