From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Wed Mar 31 16:37:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from air189.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2VMb4901907 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:37:04 -0600 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air189.startdedicated.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2VMawo01804 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:36:59 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CFC92635D8A; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06987-45; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E8CB6635E7C; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:33:10 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:31:59 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Delivered-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 34E05635E17 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06817-47 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhub1.ingenix.com (msp.ingenix.com [12.30.65.145]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 42819635E0E for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from msp7-sstms1.pcl.ingenix.com (msp7-sstms1.pcl.ingenix.com [10.128.20.82]) by mailhub1.ingenix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A233C601D3 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:40:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from msp7-msxgw1.pcl.ingenix.com ([172.21.0.85]) by msp7-sstms1 with trend_isnt_name_B; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:40:28 -0600 Received: by msp7-msxgw1.ingenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <2AXDB5X5>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:40:27 -0600 Message-ID: From: Michael Milligan To: "'oracle-l@freelists.org'" Subject: RE: any data modeling forums? Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:33:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41770.226F44F0" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org X-archive-position: 2242 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Michael.Milligan@ingenix.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: oracle-l@freelists.org X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org ------_=_NextPart_001_01C41770.226F44F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Richard, I agree with everything you just said. Database design is indeed an art form, and it is hard work that takes digging and probing and questioning and bugging people who don't want to define what they think they want. But when you finally get it right, you know it in your gut. It feels right. It's very satisfying. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Richard Stevenson [mailto:rstevenson@cobblesoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:24 PM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: Re: any data modeling forums? Hey - I'm with April - I may be getting older and hallucinating, but I still like to think the reason I get paid above the minimum wage is for the quality of my DB design.... :) A good database design is worth its weight in gold - unfortunately there seem to be very few of those these days - I've seen what comes out of too many commercial products that claim to support every database going with the same DDL. Design is an art form - one for me that elicits the same kind of passion with which a great DBA proudly polishes his/her database. I've lost count of how many times I've seen shops hire more consultants come in to clean up the mess left behind by the original consultants - but then I guess you get what you pay for. Richard. Your brain is like a database - you simply have to know how to access it (anon.). ----- Original Message ----- From: April Wells To: 'oracle-l@freelists.org' Sent: March 31, 2004 08:26 Subject: RE: any data modeling forums? NOOOOOOOoooooooooooo There are weird people out here who still TRY to design databases. We often get told to sit down and shut up in meetings... but we are out here. April Wells Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA Corporate Systems Amarillo Texas @>-->-->-- "Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite" Adam Wells age 11 "Imagination is the highest kite one can fly." Lauren Bacall -----Original Message----- From: Niall Litchfield [ mailto:n-litchfield@audit-commission.gov.uk ] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:20 AM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: RE: any data modelling forums? Does anyone *design* databases these days, aren't they just patterns and models and objects or generated on the fly by application code? Niall Litchfield Oracle DBA Audit Commission +44 117 975 7805 ********************************************************************** This email contains information intended for the addressee only. It may be confidential and may be the subject of legal and/or professional privilege. Any dissemination, distribution, copyright or use of this communication without prior permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C41770.226F44F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: any data modeling forums?
Richard,
 
I agree with everything you just said. Database design is indeed an art form, and it is hard work that takes digging and probing and questioning and bugging people who don't want to define what they think they want. But when you finally get it right, you know it in your gut. It feels right. It's very satisfying.
 
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Stevenson [mailto:rstevenson@cobblesoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:24 PM
To: oracle-l@freelists.org
Subject: Re: any data modeling forums?

Hey - I'm with April - I may be getting older and hallucinating, but I still like to think the reason I get paid above the minimum wage is for the quality of my DB design.... :)
 
A good database design is worth its weight in gold - unfortunately there seem to be very few of those these days - I've seen what comes out of too many commercial products that claim to support every database going with the same DDL.  Design is an art form - one for me that elicits the same kind of passion with which a great DBA proudly polishes his/her database.  I've lost count of how many times I've seen shops hire more consultants come in to clean up the mess left behind by the original consultants - but then I guess you get what you pay for.
 
Richard.
Your brain is like a database - you simply have to know how to access it (anon.).
----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 31, 2004 08:26
Subject: RE: any data modeling forums?

NOOOOOOOoooooooooooo

There are weird people out here who still TRY to design databases.  We often get told to sit down and shut up in meetings... but we are out here.

April Wells
Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
Corporate Systems
Amarillo Texas
 @>-->-->--
"Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite"
Adam Wells age 11
"Imagination is the highest kite one can fly."
Lauren Bacall


-----Original Message-----
From: Niall Litchfield [mailto:n-litchfield@audit-commission.gov.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:20 AM
To: oracle-l@freelists.org
Subject: RE: any data modelling forums?


Does anyone *design* databases these days, aren't they just patterns and models and objects or generated on the fly by application code?

Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
Audit Commission
+44 117 975 7805



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