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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> AW: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it
Hi Dennis
Just curious: How can you get a degree in Computer Science without taking much Computer Science ? Are you relating to courses in "purely" theoretical CS like computability or formal languages, or do you also refer to things like relational algebra or CS specific math classes in general ? I actually do encounter the same problem: There seems to be a shift to regard a programmer as a (preferrably) low-paid, disposable ressource to hack in the code. My 0.2$: Especially within development environments like Java or .NET it's essencially important to understand the concepts of data modelling / relational algebra or transaction processing (like ACID or 2PC). Otherwise you might end up using Oracle (or whatever product you're using) as a dumb container for data. Maybe VSAM could be reanimated to serve that purpose ;).
Stefan
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. November 2003 21:00
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it
Paula - It may get worse. A noted O-O author said "a database is just a means to persist an object". I also see a lot of young developers that haven't taken much Computer Science, so haven't been exposed to underlying theories like relational modeling. Well, we DBAs just have to be lights shining into the darkness.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:Paula_Stankus_at_doh.state.fl.us]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:45 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Why in an IT shop - do us DBA's only seem to understand this? As I see it most programmers don't understanding data models at all! It makes it easier for them to ignore the DBA's as being theoretical, academic....
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hear, hear!
pb
--- Michael Milligan <Michael.Milligan_at_ingenix.com> wrote:
> As Date is want to say, "Theory is practical!" (Chapter One,
> Relational
> Database Writings 1991-1994).
>
> IMHO, a lack of understanding of relational database theory leads
> directly
> to database designs so flawed that they can't possibly allow their
> application to accomplish their goals. If you don't think in terms of
> functional dependencies, if you don't know the trade-offs in using
> nulls, if
> you don't why you want to put some attributes in one entity and
> others in
> others, you'll be in trouble. Some people call all of this "theory".
> I see
> it as the "fundamental principles" that you'll be dead in the water
> without.
>
>
> If you don't know what the "relational" in RDBMS means (nothing to do
> with
> foreign keys), you'll make a bunch of mistakes over and over, knowing
> something is wrong but not able to put your finger on what's wrong.
> Then
> you'll limp along with an unfixable application, held together with
> prayers,
> and not able to deliver performance or even the right data.
>
> I've been doing this for 17 years and I've seen it happen more times
> than I
> like to remember. My suggestion, my strong suggestion, is to learn
> the
> theory to such an extent that you'll know why a model is good or why
> it's
> flawed. If you don't know what a good model is, how can you possibly
> create
> one?
>
> Data modeling is hard work. There is no shortcut for it. There is
> also no
> shortcut for learning it. But you can learn from people who
> understand it
> well and can express it well, also. In my opinion, those names
> include C.J.
> Date, Hugh Darwen, Fabian Pascal, and a number of others.
>
> HTH
>
> Michael Milligan
> Oracle DBA
> Ingenix, Inc.
> 2525 Lake Park Blvd.
> Salt Lake City, Utah 84120
> wrk 801-982-3081
> mbl 801-628-6058
> michael.milligan_at_ingenix.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:35 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Agreed. And I think you'll admit it's better to be familiar with and
> aware
> of the theory, even if current db products don't live up to the model
> 100%,
> so you know to bring up the kinds of issues you mention in the first
> place.
> In that sense, I think the knowledge to be gained from Date, Darwen,
> Pascal,
> etc., can be very practical.
>
>
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Michael Milligan
> INET: Michael.Milligan_at_ingenix.com
>
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-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Paul Baumgartel INET: treegarden_at_yahoo.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <Paula_Stankus_at_doh.state.fl.us INET: Paula_Stankus_at_doh.state.fl.us Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: Stefan.Jahnke_at_bov.de Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Mon Nov 24 2003 - 03:19:25 CST
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