which noted O-O author said that about DBs?
>
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM>
> Date: 2003/11/20 Thu PM 02:59:58 EST
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> Subject: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it
>
> Paula - It may get worse. A noted O-O author said "a database is just a
> means to persist an object". I also see a lot of young developers that
> haven't taken much Computer Science, so haven't been exposed to underlying
> theories like relational modeling. Well, we DBAs just have to be lights
> shining into the darkness.
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:Paula_Stankus_at_doh.state.fl.us]
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:45 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Why in an IT shop - do us DBA's only seem to understand this? As I see it
> most programmers don't understanding data models at all! It makes it easier
> for them to ignore the DBA's as being theoretical, academic....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:30 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Hear, hear!
>
> pb
> --- Michael Milligan <Michael.Milligan_at_ingenix.com> wrote:
> > As Date is want to say, "Theory is practical!" (Chapter One,
> > Relational
> > Database Writings 1991-1994).
> >
> > IMHO, a lack of understanding of relational database theory leads
> > directly
> > to database designs so flawed that they can't possibly allow their
> > application to accomplish their goals. If you don't think in terms of
> > functional dependencies, if you don't know the trade-offs in using
> > nulls, if
> > you don't why you want to put some attributes in one entity and
> > others in
> > others, you'll be in trouble. Some people call all of this "theory".
> > I see
> > it as the "fundamental principles" that you'll be dead in the water
> > without.
> >
> >
> > If you don't know what the "relational" in RDBMS means (nothing to do
> > with
> > foreign keys), you'll make a bunch of mistakes over and over, knowing
> > something is wrong but not able to put your finger on what's wrong.
> > Then
> > you'll limp along with an unfixable application, held together with
> > prayers,
> > and not able to deliver performance or even the right data.
> >
> > I've been doing this for 17 years and I've seen it happen more times
> > than I
> > like to remember. My suggestion, my strong suggestion, is to learn
> > the
> > theory to such an extent that you'll know why a model is good or why
> > it's
> > flawed. If you don't know what a good model is, how can you possibly
> > create
> > one?
> >
> > Data modeling is hard work. There is no shortcut for it. There is
> > also no
> > shortcut for learning it. But you can learn from people who
> > understand it
> > well and can express it well, also. In my opinion, those names
> > include C.J.
> > Date, Hugh Darwen, Fabian Pascal, and a number of others.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Michael Milligan
> > Oracle DBA
> > Ingenix, Inc.
> > 2525 Lake Park Blvd.
> > Salt Lake City, Utah 84120
> > wrk 801-982-3081
> > mbl 801-628-6058
> > michael.milligan_at_ingenix.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:35 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Agreed. And I think you'll admit it's better to be familiar with and
> > aware
> > of the theory, even if current db products don't live up to the model
> > 100%,
> > so you know to bring up the kinds of issues you mention in the first
> > place.
> > In that sense, I think the knowledge to be gained from Date, Darwen,
> > Pascal,
> > etc., can be very practical.
> >
> >
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> > Author: Michael Milligan
> > INET: Michael.Milligan_at_ingenix.com
> >
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> Author: <Paula_Stankus_at_doh.state.fl.us
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> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
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Received on Thu Nov 20 2003 - 14:20:07 CST
