Oracle-L: RE: Cary's book

From: Freeman Robert - IL <FREEMANR_at_tusc.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:14:24 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.005D1FBD.20031003111424@fatcity.com>

>> If you have a mean SOB of a boss, the first rule is that he's always >> right. The second rule is that in case of a doubt, the 1st rule >> applies.

I disagree, and most strongly. If you are a newbie, no experience type, then by all means SIT DOWN, SHUT UP and LISTEN. If, on the other hand, you are experienced then you have to have principal. Even employees can become respected and trusted if they:

Stand up for what is right 100% of the time.
Stick only to the facts. This is a big one. Often it comes down to conjecture or opinion, and in that case, you are correct, you will always loose to the boss. It's been my experience that if you stick to the facts, that you generally win much more often. Also, eventually, people outside your boss will start respecting you. That can be worth a great deal during battles.
Become politically savy. I know, politics, blah.... but they are a reality. You need to gather your forces for the fight and to support you during the battles.

IMHO, do these things and you end up with a job that is much better than it might otherwhise be.

My opinion...

Robert

-----Original Message-----
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 10/3/2003 12:44 PM

Let me clarify things further. In Cary's book, there is a part when he describes a meeting when a manager was saying things that were plain stupid and nobody would correct or interject his monologues. He further ruminates over that not being a proper way to handle a performance problem.
Well, there are several things that are slightly out of touch with reality here. If you have a mean SOB of a boss, the first rule is that he's always right. The second rule is that in case of a doubt, the 1st rule applies. One does not correct people like that if he works for them. Cary, you and me are not in the same position. You are a big name consultant who also owns and manages a medium sized consulting company. You are a big name outsider who companies trust much more then their own employees and I am just a DBA, an expendable commodity which can be replaced by single call to recruiter. Wood work is not yet within my reach, my hobby is carrying 7x24 beeper. Finally, let me reiterate, the book is excellent, I enjoy reading it very much. As you can see, I did follow your advice and I did speak up. I'll reap my rewards in heaven or, hopefully, a hotsos clinic.

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 12:59, Bellow, Bambi wrote:
> This is a difficult question that I've had to face more than I would
> have liked in the past 2 years. The way to do it is to mark your
> prices down and say that comparing bang for the buck, you've got a
> bigger bang... and maybe they can squeeze out a better buck... and
> maybe they can't... but at least you can compete with people with
> little or no experience... OH, and all those phone calls you get from
> recruiters... return them all... every last one of them... and make
> friends with them... tell them you're an expensive commodity, but if
> they hear of anything you're always interested in looking around...
> because it is much better to leave on your own terms and go job to job
> than to let the market forces do their bit and be sitting between jobs
> for weeks and months, then settling for money you'd prefer not to
> settle for...
>
> HTH,
> Bambi.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: April Wells [mailto:awells_at_csedge.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:40 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Cary's book
>
>
>
> That only works up to the point where they are willing to
> pay. It's sad, but you can STILL get a job with the OCP
> letters after your name, regardless of what you can or can't
> do. The idea is that they are paying you bottom line because
> you have no experience... but being able to pass a test means
> that you are trainable.
>
> If you can't get through the screeners that say... oh, you
> have X amount of qualifications... that prices you out of our
> range in these hard times, how can you market? Honestly, this
> is more than just rhetoric... HOW can you market yourself when
> you look bad to the bottom line?
>
> April Wells
> Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
> Corporate Systems
> Amarillo Texas
> /\
> / \
> / \
> \ /
> \/
> >\<
> \
> >\<
> \
> Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite
> Adam Wells age 11
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gudmundur Josepsson [mailto:gbj_at_index.is]
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:14 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Cary's book
>
>
> Mladen,
>
> > Hard times present problems because people do
> > not want to pay for a competent DBA but frequently hire a
> shaman or a
> > witch doctor who "improves" on the system based on snake oil
> type
> > techniques. If I cannot get more money then some bozo after
> a
>
> If you know you're better than the bozo and that you can give
> people more
> value for their money then I think this is a marketing problem
> more than
> anything else. It's up to you to prove to the buyer (or your
> boss) that you
> can do the work better. Quantify your expected results.
> Chapter 4 has an
> excellent discussion on this.
>
> Gudmundur
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Gudmundur Josepsson
> INET: gbj_at_index.is
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: mladen_at_wangtrading.com

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-- 
Author: Freeman Robert - IL
  INET: FREEMANR_at_tusc.com

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Received on Fri Oct 03 2003 - 14:14:24 CDT