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RE: The Increasingly Inaptly Named "Cary's book" Thread

From: Bellow, Bambi <bbellow_at_chi.navtech.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:39:39 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.005D1F9F.20031003093939@fatcity.com>


About 20 years ago, discussing this very trend, a friend mentioned that what we need is a computer professional union (CPU, we called it), but that geeks were disinclined to go that direction because we were a bunch of cowboys and wouldn't make personal sacrifices for common goals. Now that all the jobs are going offshore, what do you think? Is a DBA union even something that can be done?

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Sorry for replying on your private email. Here it goes again:  

Robert, no doubt that what I called a geekish culture is at fault here, and to the large part, at that. Personally, I do speak up, may be even too loud. But consider this: I've recently changed jobs, because of a row over something called "release process". In essence, the right to block the installation of applications with bad SQL was taken away. I raised my head, I spoke aloud and I was told not to expect bonus in this millennium and then, soon afterward, asked to accept a pay cut. So I left. So far, so good. I'm new at the company, I don't have enough business knowledge in this new line of work and the company is a well entrenched company with power players whose roles I don't understand quite yet. What happens, if I speak up? In this situation, I might find myself jobless, which would adversely affect my mortgage, my son's education and my life in general. No, until there aren't more jobs, I'll keep on the safe side. That's the part where crisis and CYA methodology jump in. I have no solution, but, unfortunately, I don't have Christ-like qualities that are asked from me in every new performance tuning book. And the blonde down the isle is so attractive.....

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 10:48, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:
> Mladen, this is not directed specifically at you, but you have raised
> something in my mind that often just irritates the heck out of me.
>
> I often hear the term Damagement, damagers, etc... and I understand
it, and
> have had more than a few occasions where a damager has killed me....
> Management is far from perfect, and I've met a number of managers who
> deserve to be kicked in the back side and sent out on the street.
>
> Yet, I often also wonder how much of this is OUR OWN FAULT. How many
IT guys
> have I met that are way to passive, more than content to sit in there
cubes
> and blame management, when the fault, at least in part, lies squarely
with
> them. More than I can count. Lack of communication, lack of passion
for ones
> own work, lack of vision, contentment in not understanding the big
picture,
> the "I'm not paid to do this" syndrome or the "It's not my job" POV
all in
> my eyes lead to as much failure as management. The guys who will not
get
> their lazy behinds out of their chairs and go TALK to someone (other
than
> the really good looking blonde down the isle) deserve to have their
head
> chopped off as much as the manager they can't stand.
>
> I've met so many who will sit in meetings and let managers say STUPID
> things, never correct, never interject and so the cycle of stupidity
is
> perpetuated. Sure, there may be cultures that foster this type of
behavior,
> but I see it in cultures that are quite open too.
>
> Bottom line is that we have to refuse to be silent. We must go out and
take
> a stand, and take some risk. We must LEARN about more than how Oracle
works,
> we must learn how the business works. Those who do this are the
successful
> ones, and my observation is that I rarely hear them cussing
management. This
> is usually because, they either change the world around them, or they
move
> on to a place where they can be effective.
>
>
> My opinion, YMMV,
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mladen Gogala
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 10/3/2003 10:14 AM
> Subject: Cary's book
>
> I enjoy immensely reading Cary's book, but I have some questions that
> I want to ask publicly. Recently, I made a comment about Chris
Lawson's
> book being a "Dale Carnegie book for a DBA" and now I see that Cary is
> also advising feeding the hungry business users ("buy him a
sandwich").
>
> It is true that many problems are consequences of inadequate
> communication, general lack of business knowledge in the "computer
geek
> culture" and even disdain for it, but, in my opinion, many problems
are
> also a consequence of incompetent managers ("damagers"), office
> politics, and hard times. Hard times present problems because people
do
> not want to pay for a competent DBA but frequently hire a shaman or a
> witch doctor who "improves" on the system based on snake oil type
> techniques. If I cannot get more money then some bozo after a
> performance tuning course (example from Chris Lawson's book), why
bother
> reading and investing into myself? A cynical geekish attitude and the
> "old boys" network will do just as well.
> Characteristics of the "performance analyst", as described in the
book,
> are the ones of the field general (has the overview of the whole
> problem, motivates, manages the problem) but performance analysts
> frequently work for the drill sergeants who mostly care how are they
> dressed (you guessed it, I hate neckties) and did they show up early
> enough.
>
> Now, after having indulged into lengthy preamble, let's ask the
> questions:
>
> 1) This book is meant for performance analysts. Do you plan on writing
> one for management, as well? If performance analysts are held back by
> the damagement,they cannot perform any of the good work you described
in
> your book. You have been both a DBA and a VP, so you have the
> credibility in both roles.
>
> 2) Do you foresee a change for the role of a performance analyst in an
> organization to be more of a technical manager and less of a computer
> geek?
>
> 3) What will happen to the "traditional DBA"? Are we an endangered
> species? Should I be wary of the poachers?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
> confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
> confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.
> If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and
> all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and
> notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,
disclose,
> distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the
> intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each
> reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its
> networks.
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
sender,
> except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized
> to state them to be the views of any such entity.
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:49, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:
> Mladen, this is not directed specifically at you, but you have raised
> something in my mind that often just irritates the heck out of me.
>
> I often hear the term Damagement, damagers, etc... and I understand it,
and
> have had more than a few occasions where a damager has killed me....
> Management is far from perfect, and I've met a number of managers who
> deserve to be kicked in the back side and sent out on the street.
>
> Yet, I often also wonder how much of this is OUR OWN FAULT. How many IT
guys
> have I met that are way to passive, more than content to sit in there
cubes
> and blame management, when the fault, at least in part, lies squarely with
> them. More than I can count. Lack of communication, lack of passion for
ones
> own work, lack of vision, contentment in not understanding the big
picture,
> the "I'm not paid to do this" syndrome or the "It's not my job" POV all in
> my eyes lead to as much failure as management. The guys who will not get
> their lazy behinds out of their chairs and go TALK to someone (other than
> the really good looking blonde down the isle) deserve to have their head
> chopped off as much as the manager they can't stand.
>
> I've met so many who will sit in meetings and let managers say STUPID
> things, never correct, never interject and so the cycle of stupidity is
> perpetuated. Sure, there may be cultures that foster this type of
behavior,
> but I see it in cultures that are quite open too.
>
> Bottom line is that we have to refuse to be silent. We must go out and
take
> a stand, and take some risk. We must LEARN about more than how Oracle
works,
> we must learn how the business works. Those who do this are the successful
> ones, and my observation is that I rarely hear them cussing management.
This
> is usually because, they either change the world around them, or they move
> on to a place where they can be effective.
>
>
> My opinion, YMMV,
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 10/3/2003 10:14 AM
>
> I enjoy immensely reading Cary's book, but I have some questions that
> I want to ask publicly. Recently, I made a comment about Chris Lawson's
> book being a "Dale Carnegie book for a DBA" and now I see that Cary is
> also advising feeding the hungry business users ("buy him a sandwich").
>
> It is true that many problems are consequences of inadequate
> communication, general lack of business knowledge in the "computer geek
> culture" and even disdain for it, but, in my opinion, many problems are
> also a consequence of incompetent managers ("damagers"), office
> politics, and hard times. Hard times present problems because people do
> not want to pay for a competent DBA but frequently hire a shaman or a
> witch doctor who "improves" on the system based on snake oil type
> techniques. If I cannot get more money then some bozo after a
> performance tuning course (example from Chris Lawson's book), why bother
> reading and investing into myself? A cynical geekish attitude and the
> "old boys" network will do just as well.
> Characteristics of the "performance analyst", as described in the book,
> are the ones of the field general (has the overview of the whole
> problem, motivates, manages the problem) but performance analysts
> frequently work for the drill sergeants who mostly care how are they
> dressed (you guessed it, I hate neckties) and did they show up early
> enough.
>
> Now, after having indulged into lengthy preamble, let's ask the
> questions:
>
> 1) This book is meant for performance analysts. Do you plan on writing
> one for management, as well? If performance analysts are held back by
> the damagement,they cannot perform any of the good work you described in
> your book. You have been both a DBA and a VP, so you have the
> credibility in both roles.
>
> 2) Do you foresee a change for the role of a performance analyst in an
> organization to be more of a technical manager and less of a computer
> geek?
>
> 3) What will happen to the "traditional DBA"? Are we an endangered
> species? Should I be wary of the poachers?
>

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: mladen_at_wangtrading.com

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-- 
Author: Bellow, Bambi
  INET: bbellow_at_chi.navtech.com

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San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Received on Fri Oct 03 2003 - 12:39:39 CDT

Original text of this message

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