Re: RE: Cary's book

How much you open your mouth depends on who you work for. You can open your mouth to the unemployment line. Alot of managers feel that you are undermining their authority if you correct them in meetings. I had one manager tell me that I was doing just that simply by answering co-workers questions. She was mad that they were coming to me instead of her.

Same manager threatened to fire me because I gave HER BOSS a correct answer, an answer that I found out later she didnt agree with.

It depends on your situation. This is particularly true when dealing with government maintenance projects. You have to be very careful about what you say. I was on a defense contract and the government had 2 very senior people that were available to all contractors as reference aids. One of which is a lurker on this listserv. I asked one of them a question. Notified my manager I did that, next day I had a meeting where I was told if I ever talked to either of them again I would be fired. They felt it embarrassed them. Even though they were PAYED to specifically answer our questions. One of which was from Oracle corporation in the 'technical services group', so you can imagine what his rate is.

It just depends where you work. You have to get a feel for your boss on how far you can go. As I said its both their fault and their problem if they make these mistakes. Im not going to get fired for doing the right thing. Though Ill gladly quit on them first.
>
> From: Freeman Robert - IL <FREEMANR_at_tusc.com>
> Date: 2003/10/03 Fri AM 11:49:33 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> Subject: RE: Cary's book
>
> Mladen, this is not directed specifically at you, but you have raised
> something in my mind that often just irritates the heck out of me.
>
> I often hear the term Damagement, damagers, etc... and I understand it, and
> have had more than a few occasions where a damager has killed me....
> Management is far from perfect, and I've met a number of managers who
> deserve to be kicked in the back side and sent out on the street.
>
> Yet, I often also wonder how much of this is OUR OWN FAULT. How many IT guys
> have I met that are way to passive, more than content to sit in there cubes
> and blame management, when the fault, at least in part, lies squarely with
> them. More than I can count. Lack of communication, lack of passion for ones
> own work, lack of vision, contentment in not understanding the big picture,
> the "I'm not paid to do this" syndrome or the "It's not my job" POV all in
> my eyes lead to as much failure as management. The guys who will not get
> their lazy behinds out of their chairs and go TALK to someone (other than
> the really good looking blonde down the isle) deserve to have their head
> chopped off as much as the manager they can't stand.
>
> I've met so many who will sit in meetings and let managers say STUPID
> things, never correct, never interject and so the cycle of stupidity is
> perpetuated. Sure, there may be cultures that foster this type of behavior,
> but I see it in cultures that are quite open too.
>
> Bottom line is that we have to refuse to be silent. We must go out and take
> a stand, and take some risk. We must LEARN about more than how Oracle works,
> we must learn how the business works. Those who do this are the successful
> ones, and my observation is that I rarely hear them cussing management. This
> is usually because, they either change the world around them, or they move
> on to a place where they can be effective.
>
>
> My opinion, YMMV,
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 10/3/2003 10:14 AM
>
> I enjoy immensely reading Cary's book, but I have some questions that
> I want to ask publicly. Recently, I made a comment about Chris Lawson's
> book being a "Dale Carnegie book for a DBA" and now I see that Cary is
> also advising feeding the hungry business users ("buy him a sandwich").
>
> It is true that many problems are consequences of inadequate
> communication, general lack of business knowledge in the "computer geek
> culture" and even disdain for it, but, in my opinion, many problems are
> also a consequence of incompetent managers ("damagers"), office
> politics, and hard times. Hard times present problems because people do
> not want to pay for a competent DBA but frequently hire a shaman or a
> witch doctor who "improves" on the system based on snake oil type
> techniques. If I cannot get more money then some bozo after a
> performance tuning course (example from Chris Lawson's book), why bother
> reading and investing into myself? A cynical geekish attitude and the
> "old boys" network will do just as well.
> Characteristics of the "performance analyst", as described in the book,
> are the ones of the field general (has the overview of the whole
> problem, motivates, manages the problem) but performance analysts
> frequently work for the drill sergeants who mostly care how are they
> dressed (you guessed it, I hate neckties) and did they show up early
> enough.
>
> Now, after having indulged into lengthy preamble, let's ask the
> questions:
>
> 1) This book is meant for performance analysts. Do you plan on writing
> one for management, as well? If performance analysts are held back by
> the damagement,they cannot perform any of the good work you described in
> your book. You have been both a DBA and a VP, so you have the
> credibility in both roles.
>
> 2) Do you foresee a change for the role of a performance analyst in an
> organization to be more of a technical manager and less of a computer
> geek?
>
> 3) What will happen to the "traditional DBA"? Are we an endangered
> species? Should I be wary of the poachers?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Author: Mladen Gogala
> INET: mladen_at_wangtrading.com
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> Author: Freeman Robert - IL
> INET: FREEMANR_at_tusc.com
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