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Re: OT -- Boston Globe job listings

From: AK <oramagic_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:04:22 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.005CABA1.20030814140422@fatcity.com>


Dennis ,

One can always find good and bad programmers any whre in world . But in this thread competency is brought up only bacause of cheap labor they are concerned .

-ak

> Samir,
> Your E-mail just brought up in my point of view one of the problems with
global trade ( generally I am not against it btw ): since the living cost here is so much higher in the US, it is unfair and impossible for people in the US to compete against people living in India. We are not standing on even ground. Also from what I read nobody made assumptions about competancies of Indian programmers based on their price, its based on personal experience.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> One thing which most of the people have assumed on this thread
> is that since the labour is cheap, it is necessarily inefficient and
> incompetent.
> The reason the labour comes cheap in India is cos living costs r very
cheap
> too.
> The best paid executives in India get paid around 100,000 Indian Rupees a
> month
> which would be just a little less than $2500. With that kind of money,
> anybody
> in India would live like a king....fancy cars, house servants, fancy
> apartments et al.
> And quite a few highly qualified executives are paid less than the amount
I
> mentioned.
>
> This is the reason companies are now going in for outsourcing as
investment
> costs
> are pretty lower in all respects in India.....right from setting up of the
> infrastructure.
>
> Samir
>
> Samir Sarkar
> Oracle DBA
> SchlumbergerSema
> Email : ssarkar2_at_slb.com
> Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6028
> EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76028
> Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: 14 August 2003 18:29
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Reminds me of when IBM decided to keep the Aptiva line, built in Mexico,
and
> killed the Ambra line of PCs, built in Canada... My mother owned an
Aptiva,
> I owned an Ambra -- In my opinion the Aptivas had many more problems than
> the Ambras did.
>
> In the end IBM decided to kill the Ambra line because (I suppose) on the
> budget sheets it looked like the right thing to do. In the short run at
> least. Perhaps someone got a promotion out of that decision.
>
> Now Dell seems to be doing OK...
>
> Patrice.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Tim,
>
> I regret to have to agree with you. More of the IT jobs are & will
> be moving to overseas locations until those locations prove that they
cannot
> support US operations for one reason or other. I believe it is just an
> effort by unintelligent CEO, CIO, and CFO's to save a buck today. What
> we'll end up with is a number of large companies that are trying to sell
> products to a lot of unemployed middle class people who won't open their
> wallets. What's the old saying, penny wise pound foolish? As in save a
> penny here drop a dollar there.
>
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Of course the shipment of "development work" out of the US affects DBAs!
> Support of production systems is only one part of the job, and the
> outsourcing of application development to another physical location then
> necessarily outsources the systems/database administration with it. How
> many huge application development projects do you see in the US these
days?
>
> There is no "cherry picking". The IT industry in the US is moving
overseas,
> it is a trend, and it will move much faster than the manufacturing sector
> did, for obvious reasons. There is lighter equipment to move.
>
> It is difficult to tell that the water level in the lake is dropping when
> you are treading water. Until your feet touch bottom...
>
>
>
> on 8/14/03 8:24 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS at DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM wrote:
>
> > Ken - Since you've recently changed jobs, your upbeat attitude is
> > encouraging. I think you've made a good point that jobs aren't always
> > advertised. Another point is that when there are more jobs than
available
> > candidates, companies have to advertise strongly to fill their
positions.
> > When there are more candidates than available jobs, companies often find
> > that people are seeking out the opening before they post it.
> >
> > Patrice - Look at what happened over the previous years. In 1999
> > corporations spent wildly on I.T. (naturally when the catastrophe didn't
> > occur because of the tireless efforts of I.T. people, the senior
> executives
> > felt the money was wasted). Then when spending would have naturally
> > declined, the dot-com madness stuck and things went wild. I think we are
> > just about to come out of the natural down cycle due to the extravagant
> > dot-com spending. But now I keep seeing articles about how much
> development
> > work is being sent overseas. Has anyone seen that affect Oracle DBA work
> > yet?
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com <mailto:dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:14 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > I don't think it has as much to do with no available positions (although
> > that is part of the answer) as most medium to large companies don't use
> > newspaper ads anymore. They are using the internet (especially for
> > technical jobs) and are signed up with Monster, BrassRing, etc. to do
> their
> > recruiting for them from their own company web sites. I've seen this
> > definite shift here in the Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN area over the past
> > couple of years. Most of these companies also provide e-mail service
that
> > sends you an email when a job is posted that meets your specs. So, why
> > waste your time on newspaper ads that only appear every Sunday?
> >
> > My $0.02 worth,
> >
> > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:34 AM
> >
> >
> >> I've been keeping an eye on the Boston Globe's Oracle DBA job postings,
> > two
> >> years ago it wasn't uncommon to see eight or more per week, now I tend
to
> >> see one or two, or none.
> >>
> >> For a while they also announced big IT job fairs, I don't know if they
> > still
> >> do that or how successful they now are.
> >>
> >> The market has really shrunk in two years!
> >>
> >> There can't be a huge glut of DBAs out there looking for work... It
must
> > be
> >> a reduction in demand because companies are not making big
infrastructure
> >> changes anymore.
> >>
> >> Patrice.
> >> --
> >> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >> --
> >> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> >> INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
> >>
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> >>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Tim Gorman
> INET: tim_at_sagelogix.com
>
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> Author: Goulet, Dick
> INET: DGoulet_at_vicr.com
>
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> --
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
>
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> --
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> --
> Author: SARKAR, Samir
> INET: Samir.SARKAR_at_nottingham.sema.slb.com
>
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> --
> Author: Meng, Dennis
> INET: Dennis.Meng_at_cardinal.com
>
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: AK
  INET: oramagic_at_hotmail.com

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Received on Thu Aug 14 2003 - 17:04:22 CDT

Original text of this message

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