Oracle-L: RE: Oracle Untested Infuriator

From: Ron Thomas <rthomas_at_hypercom.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:41:56 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.0059EEEC.20030521084156@fatcity.com>

FWIW- I use vnc for remote installs. This keeps oui running local to the install server. Only changes in screen are sent across the wan. I haven't noticed much time difference doing it this way. Definatly short than 9 hours-- more on the line of 1 hour.

Ron Thomas
Hypercom, Inc
rthomas_at_hypercom.com
Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. -- Kernighan

                                                                                                                                                    
                      kirti.deshpande_at_v                                                                                                             
                      erizon.com               To:       ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com                                                                       
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                      root_at_fatcity.com         Subject:  RE: Oracle Untested Infuriator                                                             
                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                    
                      05/21/2003 08:41                                                                                                              
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                      ORACLE-L

FWIW...
9i install on an AIX server via ISDN (128k) took 9 hours. (Great money maker if one charged by hours in one's "Remote DBA" Service offerings ... ;)

Identical install on another AIX server while on campus took less than 70 minutes. I drove to work Sunday (before last) to complete a few more installs....

I also run other X-Windows apps (BMC Patrol, ADSM/TSM Client) over ISDN. OUI is the slowest one (for whatever reasons).

Kirti

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:32 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

What a cynic (as usual)! You'd think that moving back to Perth would have improved your sarcastic way of life, Mr. McDonald.

In the overall scheme of things, my personal belief is that going to a GUI interface was not the problem. After all, lots of software products were guified for this ease of use reason. I think the main problem was in not leaving an alternative route (other than the response file route, which IIRC still required you to be running an X session) for a) those more experienced people like most on this list seem to be to do things the way they were used to and b) those people who have to install across a low speed network (WAN or whatever). I know I still curse the slow installation I do onto a box which actually resides on the east coast of the US while I'm on the west coast. Heaven only knows what it'll be like when I move back to Oz in a month or so's time and still have to do it!

Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-----Original Message-----
McDonald
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 8:17 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I have to disagree...I quite like the benefits that the OUI has brought to my job. Consider:

In the old days, I could get an (character mode) install done quickly and efficiently in 30 mins or so , and thus I could quickly move onto other job tasks.

With the GUI install (especially over a slow network), its normally the best part of half a day or more to get even the simplest things done. This opens up much more of my day for things like R&D, hypothesis testing and all sorts of other things that we all never have enough time for. So all the fun things about the DBA role - preparing presentations, putting together tests, reading the doco on newer versions etc all neatly fall under the timesheet category of "Waiting for install to complete"

:-)

Signed
Sarcastic Bugger

Jeremiah Wilton <jwilton_at_speakeasy.net> wrote: > Pete,
>
> It may be that some other group at Oracle besides
> the OUI team is
> responsible for the absurd requirement that in order
> to add the JDBC
> OCI drivers (4 files) to a 9.2.0.3 ORACLE_HOME, you
> must allow the OUI
> to downgrade Oracle Server software to 9.2.0.1.
> Support actually came
> up with the clever idea of choosing a client install
> when adding the
> drivers, and then OUI only downgrades libclntsh.so
> and associated
> stuff, so only they need to be re-upgraded.
>
> The main probelm though is that the installer is
> pretty much unusable
> unless you are within the same LAN as the server
> host. That is an OUI
> arcitectural problem. The requirement for an X
> server, even for an
> unattended install, is unsustainable if Oracle
> expects real DBAs to
> take the product seriously. The installer cannot be
> in the business
> of screen-painting across the network. I can't even
> believe the idea
> got past an initial review, much less persisted for
> several years.
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Pete Sharman wrote:
>
> > So tell us how you really feel, Jeremiah! :)
> >
> > Seriously, many of the problems you list are
> actually not OUI problems, but
> > install (the way the install was built, and the
> dependencies of products
> > being installed). But customers don't separate
> these (and they should not
> > have to), and OUI gets blamed for it.
> Fortunately the install and OUI
> > teams are now much closer (same team), as they
> should be, and hopefully that
> > will help drive requirements from install (of
> Server and iAS) into OUI and
> > vice versa.
> >
> > Yeah, I know, the moon is made of green cheese,
> too ... :)
> >
> > Pete
> > "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> > "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!"
> > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Wilton
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:27 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Speaking of GUIs, lets hear it for the most
> horrendous GUI of them all, the
> > nearly unusable Oracle Universal Installer.
> >
> > Although I avoid it religiously, opting to copy
> around tarballs instead, I
> > still occasionally must run the installer on my
> master installation.
> >
> > Well, the master copy is in Seattle and I am in
> London. Why? because you
> > have to have a dedicated host not running any
> instances for use as the
> > master install location, due to the fact that the
> ORACLE_HOME is hardcoded
> > into all sorts of files, and the thing refuses to
> run if there is an
> > instance running, even if it isn't going to touch
> anything that instance is
> > using. If you install in an alternate directory
> of one of your normal
> > servers, you can never upgrade the thing.
> >
> > Although our WAN is fairly fast, it is no match
> for the OUI. You click a
> > button, and 60 seconds later it visibly depresses.
> Then you wait for the
> > results. Today I discovered that if you install
> 9.2 and patch it up to
> > 9.2.0.3, you can't add components like JDBC
> drivers etc. from media without
> > having the OUI automatically DOWNGRADE the Oracle
> Server binaries in the
> > process. Sure you can copy them into place
> manually, but they won't get
> > picked up in future upgrades with the... OUI!!
> >
> > Combine that with incorrect instructions, faulty
> readme files and just flat
> > out non-QA'd software (oops forgot to make that
> file executable in the
> > distribution!), and you get one frustrated DBA.
> >
> > All I can say is the OUI is the biggest piece of
> crap Oracle has ever
> > produced (maybe I am forgetting Oracle Mail). I
> can't believe they haven't
> > rearchitected it since its fateful inception and
> the demise of orainst. Who
> > wouldn't give up a finger to have character mode
> orainst back?
> >
> > If I wrote a reliable character mode perl script
> that does the same thing as
> > runInstaller, does anyone think I could sell it?
> >
> > The OUI has blown so much of my time this week.
> Companies should start
> > asking Oracle for license fee discounts equal to
> the time their expensive
> > DBAs flush down the toilet running the OUI and
> screwing with broken Oracle
> > software (We have over 10 one-off patches on top
> of 9.2.0.3).
> >
> > I hereby declare that I will use all of my powers
> to get the present OUI
> > scrapped in time for 10i. Stay tuned for updates.
> >
> > --
> > Jeremiah Wilton
> > http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> >
> > On Tue, 20 May 2003, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:
> >
> > > As for me and my house, we will choose manual
> migrations over GUI any
> > > time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert 12:23-24
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Sent: 5/20/2003 9:31 AM
> > >
> > > No problem, you are more than welcome and for
> your sarcasm, when
> > > you've reached the point where you have done
> oracle work for 12
> > > years(yes clear back to BEFORE MIGRATION
> ASSISTANTS EXISTED), you can
> > > feel free to verbally abuse me, in the mean
> time:
> > >
> > > BYTE ME.
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Thanx a lot for your valuable info' JOE.
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >Jp.
> > >
> > > 19-5-2003 12:27:52, Joe Testa
> <jtesta_at_dmc-it.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >>all migrations/upgrades are done manually,
> i've never trusted them
> > >
> > > dang
> > >
> > > >>gui tools
> > > >>joe
> > >
> > > Joseph S Testa
> > > Chief Technology Officer
> > > Data Management Consulting
> > > p: 614-791-9000
> > > f: 614-791-9001
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Joseph S Testa
> > > INET: jtesta_at_dmc-it.com
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
> web hosting services
> > >

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Author: Deshpande, Kirti
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Author: Ron Thomas
  INET: rthomas_at_hypercom.com

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Received on Wed May 21 2003 - 11:41:56 CDT