I have to disagree...I quite like the benefits that
the OUI has brought to my job. Consider:
In the old days, I could get an (character mode)
install done quickly and efficiently in 30 mins or so
, and thus I could quickly move onto other job tasks.
With the GUI install (especially over a slow network),
its normally the best part of half a day or more to
get even the simplest things done. This opens up much
more of my day for things like R&D, hypothesis testing
and all sorts of other things that we all never have
enough time for. So all the fun things about the DBA
role - preparing presentations, putting together
tests, reading the doco on newer versions etc all
neatly fall under the timesheet category of "Waiting
for install to complete"
:-)
Signed
Sarcastic Bugger
- Jeremiah Wilton <jwilton_at_speakeasy.net> wrote: >
Pete,
>
> It may be that some other group at Oracle besides
> the OUI team is
> responsible for the absurd requirement that in order
> to add the JDBC
> OCI drivers (4 files) to a 9.2.0.3 ORACLE_HOME, you
> must allow the OUI
> to downgrade Oracle Server software to 9.2.0.1.
> Support actually came
> up with the clever idea of choosing a client install
> when adding the
> drivers, and then OUI only downgrades libclntsh.so
> and associated
> stuff, so only they need to be re-upgraded.
>
> The main probelm though is that the installer is
> pretty much unusable
> unless you are within the same LAN as the server
> host. That is an OUI
> arcitectural problem. The requirement for an X
> server, even for an
> unattended install, is unsustainable if Oracle
> expects real DBAs to
> take the product seriously. The installer cannot be
> in the business
> of screen-painting across the network. I can't even
> believe the idea
> got past an initial review, much less persisted for
> several years.
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Pete Sharman wrote:
>
> > So tell us how you really feel, Jeremiah! :)
> >
> > Seriously, many of the problems you list are
> actually not OUI problems, but
> > install (the way the install was built, and the
> dependencies of products
> > being installed). But customers don't separate
> these (and they should not
> > have to), and OUI gets blamed for it.
> Fortunately the install and OUI
> > teams are now much closer (same team), as they
> should be, and hopefully that
> > will help drive requirements from install (of
> Server and iAS) into OUI and
> > vice versa.
> >
> > Yeah, I know, the moon is made of green cheese,
> too ... :)
> >
> > Pete
> > "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> > "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!"
> > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Wilton
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:27 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Speaking of GUIs, lets hear it for the most
> horrendous GUI of them all, the
> > nearly unusable Oracle Universal Installer.
> >
> > Although I avoid it religiously, opting to copy
> around tarballs instead, I
> > still occasionally must run the installer on my
> master installation.
> >
> > Well, the master copy is in Seattle and I am in
> London. Why? because you
> > have to have a dedicated host not running any
> instances for use as the
> > master install location, due to the fact that the
> ORACLE_HOME is hardcoded
> > into all sorts of files, and the thing refuses to
> run if there is an
> > instance running, even if it isn't going to touch
> anything that instance is
> > using. If you install in an alternate directory
> of one of your normal
> > servers, you can never upgrade the thing.
> >
> > Although our WAN is fairly fast, it is no match
> for the OUI. You click a
> > button, and 60 seconds later it visibly depresses.
> Then you wait for the
> > results. Today I discovered that if you install
> 9.2 and patch it up to
> > 9.2.0.3, you can't add components like JDBC
> drivers etc. from media without
> > having the OUI automatically DOWNGRADE the Oracle
> Server binaries in the
> > process. Sure you can copy them into place
> manually, but they won't get
> > picked up in future upgrades with the... OUI!!
> >
> > Combine that with incorrect instructions, faulty
> readme files and just flat
> > out non-QA'd software (oops forgot to make that
> file executable in the
> > distribution!), and you get one frustrated DBA.
> >
> > All I can say is the OUI is the biggest piece of
> crap Oracle has ever
> > produced (maybe I am forgetting Oracle Mail). I
> can't believe they haven't
> > rearchitected it since its fateful inception and
> the demise of orainst. Who
> > wouldn't give up a finger to have character mode
> orainst back?
> >
> > If I wrote a reliable character mode perl script
> that does the same thing as
> > runInstaller, does anyone think I could sell it?
> >
> > The OUI has blown so much of my time this week.
> Companies should start
> > asking Oracle for license fee discounts equal to
> the time their expensive
> > DBAs flush down the toilet running the OUI and
> screwing with broken Oracle
> > software (We have over 10 one-off patches on top
> of 9.2.0.3).
> >
> > I hereby declare that I will use all of my powers
> to get the present OUI
> > scrapped in time for 10i. Stay tuned for updates.
> >
> > --
> > Jeremiah Wilton
> > http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> >
> > On Tue, 20 May 2003, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:
> >
> > > As for me and my house, we will choose manual
> migrations over GUI any
> > > time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert 12:23-24
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Sent: 5/20/2003 9:31 AM
> > >
> > > No problem, you are more than welcome and for
> your sarcasm, when
> > > you've reached the point where you have done
> oracle work for 12
> > > years(yes clear back to BEFORE MIGRATION
> ASSISTANTS EXISTED), you can
> > > feel free to verbally abuse me, in the mean
> time:
> > >
> > > BYTE ME.
> > >
> > > joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Thanx a lot for your valuable info' JOE.
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >Jp.
> > >
> > > 19-5-2003 12:27:52, Joe Testa
> <jtesta_at_dmc-it.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >>all migrations/upgrades are done manually,
> i've never trusted them
> > >
> > > dang
> > >
> > > >>gui tools
> > > >>joe
> > >
> > > Joseph S Testa
> > > Chief Technology Officer
> > > Data Management Consulting
> > > p: 614-791-9000
> > > f: 614-791-9001
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Joseph S Testa
> > > INET: jtesta_at_dmc-it.com
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
> web hosting services
> > >
>
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
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> > > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of
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> > > the message BODY, include a line containing:
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> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
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> > > --
> > > Author: Freeman Robert - IL
> > > INET: FREEMANR_at_tusc.com
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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> > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
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> > >
>
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
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> > >
> >
> > --
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> > --
> > Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> > INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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>
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> > --
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> > --
> > Author: Pete Sharman
> > INET: peter.sharman_at_oracle.com
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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Received on Tue May 20 2003 - 22:16:49 CDT
