Oracle-L: RE: copyright

From: DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:48:51 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.0054AAA5.20030212074851@fatcity.com>

Tim

Whatever you write is automatically copyrighted. In other words, someone can't just freely copy what someone else has written and claim it is their own (at least in the last dozen years). A good short resource is: http://www.ott.caltech.edu/security/copyright_tutorial_Basic.htm

Now, as we all know there is a difference between rights and being able to defend those rights. If you have placed a copyright notice on your script, that enhances your claims and is a practical measure that makes other parties aware of your rights that they might otherwise unwittingly trespass.

Next, can you prove prior existence of your script? If it was published in a magazine that would be very strong proof. You can file your script with the Copyright Office for a small fee. I think your request for downloaders to keep your name on the script is very wise. As far as posting it on a Web site, the Internet is notoriously stateless. It is difficult to establish original dates.

The other problem with scripts, at least very simple ones, is the question of whether given the same requirements, is it possible someone by chance would write the same script?

As to actions, it all begins with a simple notice to the other person. My impression is that the vast majority of these situations are cleared up by simply notifying the other party that they stepped on your toes. Large companies in particular are very conscientious about not getting caught in a violation. Of course, you may have the idea that they will keep publicizing the script with your name attached and their action may be to just remove the script. Or they may reply that another party claims to have originated the script.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Dave,

I'm not saying that what they did is OK. But I don't see scripts posted on the internet as IP, plain and simple.

You referenced my script; I posted it there purposely for people to download and use. On my website, I request downloaders to provide attribution by keeping my name in the script, but I don't claim any legal right to force them to do so. Please notice the lack of the word "copyright" in the script. Removing my name from the script would simply be bad manners and irritating to me, nothing more...

Jared had a copyright notice on the script? I'm not a lawyer, but a defensible copyright requires more than simply saying so, doesn't it? Kind of like a "no trespassing" sign on your property; you had better have the plattes and surveys to back your assertion of ownership in court, else you risk countersuit. Same with a copyright; you have to prove that you really wrote it, didn't copy it from someone else, etc, etc, etc. Life is too short for all that...

Also, I did not say that the battle was futile nor did I say that illegal actions should not be fought. I simply don't believe that what happened enters the realm of litigation. My reference to "tilting at windmills" was not meant to convey an image of futility; it was meant to convey someone who is attacking misguidely, while under delusion. I simply do not believe that IP theft occurred here, merely bad etiquette and bad manners (which I find far more offensive).

Further, I think that any discussion of intellectual property neccesitates more humility. Surely, nothing that any of us does is truly original. I am constantly reminded of two sayings: "If I have seen further it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants" and "Look, listen, and learn; for an original mistake is as rare as an original idea". Intellectual property is deeper than simply slapping the word "copyright" on everything one has written. There is a code of honor surrounding the use of material written by others. Codes of honor can be broken by anyone without honor, any minute of any day, legally. It is only those with that sense of honor who would not dream of betraying that trust. I might be naive, but I believe the entire free software movement is based on that sense of honor. Can you imagine what would happen to the world if GNU suddenly demanded payment? Not a world I want to inhabit...

I do not wish to debate this any further -- you have your view, I have mine. End of story.

The entire reason for my response to you was not to provoke you, nor to earn your enmity, nor to debate property law. Rather, I was irritated that Jared would be branded as "doing a disservice" to anyone because he did not agree that there were bigger ramifications. I requested an apology from you on his behalf, and I believe you have done so. End of story.

Peace. Unskyld. Back to work...

-Tim

Original Message ----- To: <tim_at_sagelogix.com>; "Oracle RDBMS Community Forum" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Cc: <jared.still_at_radisys.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:06 PM

> Hi Tim,
> A few thoughts,
>
> >It's a script
> - Oracle RDBMS is a bunch of scripts
> >It was posted on the internet
> - Oracle is available on the internet
>
> Does this mean I can download Oracle, place it on
> my website legally, call it notoracle and sell it?
>
> Or ....
>
> I found this script on the web
>
> #!/bin/ksh
>

#===========================================================================
=


> # File:         oramem.sh

> # Type:         UNIX korn-shell script

> # Author:       Tim Gorman, Sagelogix Inc.

> # Date:         28jun02

> #

> # Description:

> #

> #       This shell script utilizes the "pmap -x" command to total up the

> #       total amount of virtual memory used by all of the Oracle server

> #       processes (both "background" and "foreground") belonging to a

> #       database instance.

> #

> # Modifications:
> # TGorman 28jun02 written for Solaris 2.8
>
> How about if I put this on my website after I remove
> all references to yourself and SageLogix and claim to be the
> author?
>
> How about if I rewrite in bourne sh, keep all the references
> and post it?
>
> The first is definitely illegal, the second might be, (you don't
> explicitly give permission to copy the script, but accepted practise
> in the area is that attribution is enough). You will definitely be
> unhappy with the first, you might be proud you were attributed
> in the second.
>
> Some basic facts, Jared wrote it, Jared owns the copyright. The
> fact that he makes it publically available is irrelevant. Oracle is
> using his work, without attribution in a paid service. (Metalink, from
> which the page is now unavailable, gee I wonder why).
>
> A copyright is intellectual property, removal of a copyright notice
> is illegal. Consult SageLogix's lawyers, mine would have loved to
> work for Jared, would have done it on contigency basis. Bad manners
> is not an acceptable legal defence.
>
> This has everything to do with copyrights, patents, and theft.
> Personally, I think it adds to Jared's reputation but what happens
> if this is not challenged and 5 years from now they
> come back at Jared and say you are distributing one of our scripts?
> Defending oneself in that situation would be impossible.
>
> Tilting at windmills. Protesting illegal actions taken by large
> corporations is futile? Standing up for ones rights is pointless?
>
> Come to Canada where we know how to treat monopolies ;-) Badly
>
> An apology, for protecting his intellectual capital, especially
> since the offending page has (again) been removed. OK.
>
> Jared, if I have interfered unseemingly in your life I am sorry,
> but I think minor issues like this can hve very wide ramifications.
> However, this belief does not give me to right to interfere.
> I did not email Oracle, the only comment was to this forum.
>
> Dave
>
> >
> > From: "Tim Gorman" <Tim_at_SageLogix.com>
> > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:12:17 -0700
> > Subject: Re: dump.sql
> >
> > This has nothing to do with copyrights, patents, reputation, or IP.
> > It's a
> > script. It was posted on the internet. Nothing more than a case of bad
> > manners.
> >
> > There is no disservice in not tilting at this particular windmill. You
> > owe
> > Jared an apology.
> >
> > --
>
> --
> Dave Morgan
> Operations Manager, Rigskills Canada
> Canada's Geographical Oilfield Services Locator
> http://www.rigskills.ca
> dvmrgn_at_rigskills.ca
> 403 399 2442

-- 
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-- 
Author: Tim Gorman
  INET: Tim_at_SageLogix.com

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Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
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Received on Wed Feb 12 2003 - 09:48:51 CST