You're absolutely correct - I have neglected the
acknowledge many of the various places I've seen
proposing the 'alter system checkpoint / shutdown
abort' model, including your web site.
Apologies.
Cheers
Connor
- Jeremiah Wilton <jwilton_at_speakeasy.net> wrote: >
Alter system checkpoint... You don't say...
>
> Hey, this is the first time this thread has
> concluded without the
> usual "you guys better watch out b/c yer gonna break
> your database!"
> post.
>
> I'd say this universal support for ABORT over
> IMMEDIATE represents a
> dramatic change in the prevailing DBA attitude over,
> say, two years
> ago.
>
> How do you suppose that happened?
>
> :-)
>
> The only dissenter was Dan. Dan, what's the
> difference between a
> kernel transaction and a regular transaction? Are
> you talking about
> the O/S kernel or Oracle? Can you explain in more
> detail what the
> kernel transaction does to make Oracle unrecoverable
> after ABORT?
>
> I'm still mulling over that 'alter system
> checkpoint.' Sounds
> familiar.
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Connor McDonald
> wrote:
>
> > Agreed. All that matters is the redo logs. If
> Oracle
> > had named the shutdown options more accurately,
> that
> > is
> >
> > shutdown abort => shutdown fast
> > shutdown immediate => shutdown hopefully
> > shutdown transactional => shutdown when hell
> freezes
> > over
> > shutdown normal => shutdown never
> >
> > then I'm pretty sure I know what everyone would be
> > using...An 'alter system checkpoint' just before
> the
> > abort also helps startup times.
> >
> > --- Hemant K Chitale <hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Comparing the shutdown scenarios with what would
> > > happen if someone
> > > were to "pull the plug" on the server is the
> best
> > > way to explain the behaviour
> > > of Oracle.
> > > What if
> > > a. Someone switched-off the server [there's a
> > > power failure and the UPS
> > > doesn't kick in] ?
> > > b. The server crashes with a Unix Panic
> > > well, the Oracle instance dies and yet, [as long
> as
> > > the disks are still good,
> > > even if you have to do an "fsck"] there's
> Instance
> > > Recovery which goes through
> > > successfully.
> > > So what's the problem with SHUTDOWN ABORT ? Its
> > > about the same thing,
> > > but not as bad.
> > >
> > > I consistently use SHUTDOWN ABORT, STARTUP
> RESTRICT,
> > > SHUTDOWN NORMAL
> > > on Production, Mission-Critical databases. I've
> > > never had a problem with a
> > > SHUTDOWN ABORT.
> > > Even a clone of an ABORTed instance can work if
> the
> > > online redo logs and
> > > current
> > > control-file are also cloned !
> > >
> > > I have seen SHUTDOWN IMMEDIATE hang very many
> times
> > > [particularly when
> > > DBMS_JOB jobs are running or the un-intelligent
> > > Intelligent Agent is
> > > connected].
> > >
> > > At 05:29 PM 31-01-03 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >Dan,
> > > >
> > > >If you look at Rama Velpuri's most famous
> treatise
> > > on B & R - namely
> > > >'Oracle8 Backup & Recovery Handbook' (Oracle
> > > Press), you will see the path
> > > >that the various shutdown options take. [Page
> 43,
> > > Chapter 2: The Oracle
> > > >Architecture and Configuration]. I belive this
> is
> > > the closest that we could
> > > >come to a published look under the covers. Some
> one
> > > mentioned a switch
> > > >logfile prior to the shutdown abort. In any
> case, a
> > > shutdown abort would not
> > > >be as bad as someone pulling the plug on the
> juice
> > > (as in Cleaning lady: 'I
> > > >need to plug in my hoover... aaah - here's a
> socket
> > > I can use). The instance
> > > >goes down not-so-gracefully, but the disk is
> still
> > > safe as long as the
> > > >server stays up.
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Fink, Dan [mailto:Dan.Fink_at_mdx.com]
> > > > >
> > > > > I know I am going to catch major grief for
> this,
> > > but I avoid
> > > > > shutdown abort
> > > > > when possible. Shutdown immediate can take
> some
> > > time, as it will do
> > > > > transaction rollback in serial (where
> recovery
> > > at startup can do it in
> > > > > parallel and as needed). The main reason I
> avoid
> > > it is that
> > > > > there are known
> > > > > bugs that will cause the database to be
> > > unrecoverable when a
> > > > > shutdown abort
> > > > > is done while a kernel transaction is being
> > > performed.
> > > > > Granted, I have not
> > > > > personally encountered this, and the chances
> of
> > > encountering
> > > > > it are slight,
> > > > > but why take the risk?
> > > > >
> > > > > <Ducking and running for cover>
> > > > > Dan Fink
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 6:15 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll echo that sentiment.
> > > > >
> > > > > 'shutdown abort', 'startup restrict' was a
> > > regular part of my
> > > > > shutdown scripts beginning in 1994 with
> 7.0.16,
> > > as
> > > > > 'shutdown immediate' wasn't all that
> reliable,
> > > even in situations
> > > > > where it should have worked.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jared
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday 29 January 2003 15:53, John
> > > Kanagaraj wrote:
> > > > > > Rao,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And where did you read that 'shutdown
> abort'
> > > is not
> > > > > recommended? This is
> > > > > > another myth that has been busted a while
> ago.
> > > A shutdown
> > > > > abort followed
> > > > > by
> > > > > > a startup restrict and a normal shutdown
> is
> > > the way to go
> > > > > when dealing
> > > > > with
> > > > > > rogue sessions that open a connection and
> > > never shutdown.
> > > > > In such cases, a
> > > > > > shutdown immediate will _never_ return
> > > (certainly not
> > > > > within your 5 to 10
> > > > > > minutes). I have been using this method
> for
> > > more than 8 years now -
> > > > > > starting at 7.0.16 fyi. The trick in this
> case
> > > is to script
> > > > > it into the rc
> > > > > > commands.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Kanagaraj
> > > > > > Oracle Applications DBA
> > > > > > DBSoft Inc
> > > > > > (W): 408-970-7002
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know what the future holds for me,
> but
> > > I do know
> > > > > who holds my
> > > > > > future!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ** The opinions and statements above are
> > > entirely my own
> > > > > and not those of
> > > > > > my employer or clients **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:49 AM
> > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paula,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shutdown abort is not recommended as the
> file
> > > checkpointing
> > > > > is not done
> > > > > > during shutdown abort. If you need to
> perform
> > > shutdown
> > > > > abort, then, it is
> > > > > > preferred to bring up the db with startup
> > > restrict (so that
> > > > > the users
> > > > > > wouldn't connect) and then, cleanly
> shutdown
> > > the db and
> > > > > bring it up again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tell to your sys admins. that shutdown
> > > immediate would take
> > > > > some time
> > > > > > (about 5 to 10 minutes) depending on the
> > > activity on your
> > > > > db. They would
> > > > > > have to wait for that much time before
> calling
> > > a DBA during
> > > > > system boots.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rao
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:30 AM
> > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > System Administrator says he doesn't trust
> > > that the rc
> > > > > commands will stop
> > > > > > if the database doesn't want to shutdown
> and
> > > even if it
> > > > > does would want to
> > > > > > shutdown with scripts beforehand so that a
> DBA
> > > could
> > > > > connect and resolve
> > > > > > the issue. Other DBA says this is all
> wrong
> > > and rc commands should
> > > > > include
> > > > > > shutdown immediate of database. In the
> past I
> > > had setup 2
> > > > > processes in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > system scripts for the sys admin -
> shutdown
> > > immediate -
> > > > > wait .... shutdown
> > > > > > abort - on a read-only DSS system which of
> > > course allows
> > > > > some room for
> > > > > this
> > > > > > type of activity. I kind of would want to
> > > know if a
> > > > > database was going to
> > > > > > be shutdown with an abort esp. in OLTP
> system
> > > and do it myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - any ideas
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > > http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: Jared Still
> > > > > INET: jkstill_at_cybcon.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list
> and
> > > web hosting services
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list,
> send
> > > an E-Mail message
> > > > > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT
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> > > 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > > the message BODY, include a line containing:
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> > > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
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> > > > > also send the HELP command for other
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> > > (like subscribing).
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > > http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: Fink, Dan
> > > > > INET: Dan.Fink_at_mdx.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> > > http://www.fatcity.com
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> > > >--
> > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > > http://www.orafaq.net
> > > >--
> > > >Author: John Kanagaraj
> > > > INET: john.kanagaraj_at_hds.com
> > > >
> > > >Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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>
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> > > Hemant K Chitale
> > > My web site page is :
> http://hkchital.tripod.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > > http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Hemant K Chitale
> > > INET: hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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> >
> > =====
> > Connor McDonald
> > web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk
> > web: http://www.oaktable.net
> > email: connor_mcdonald_at_yahoo.com
> >
> > "GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But
> TEACH him how to fish, and...he will sit in a boat
> and drink beer all day"
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?=
> > INET: hamcdc_at_yahoo.co.uk
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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> web hosting services
> >
>
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> > also send the HELP command for other information
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> >
> >
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
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> also send the HELP command for other information
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>
Connor McDonald
web:
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web:
http://www.oaktable.net
email: connor_mcdonald_at_yahoo.com
"GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"
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Received on Sun Feb 02 2003 - 19:08:40 CST
