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Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000

From: Lyndon Tiu <ltiu_at_alumni.sfu.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:54:25 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.0050353D.20021114075425@fatcity.com>


W2K is fine, really. I use it at work and it's convenient since it comes with the computer you just bought. It runs Oracle fine as well since I've been using it for a while now.

The issue here is the server side cost. W2K is expensive at $1,500 Cdn a pop for 5 licenses only. We need 500 per server at three servers on average per installation site, so imagine the cost of that.

That's where Linux comes in. AND contrary to what people still think, Linux is ready for prime-time.

--
Lyndon Tiu

On Thursday 14 November 2002 01:30 am, Mark Leith wrote:

> This blind hate and resentment towards Windows products it getting a little
> tiresome, have you guys even TRIED using Win2K?
>
> How about some constructive criticism?
>
> Don't get me wrong - I sit on the fence, and will defend both Unix AND
> Windows when I feel it's warranted. Win2K WILL be able to do the job that
> Jared wants it to do (we've seen and worked with the largest SAP database
> on NT in Europe)..
>
> And, Lyndon, I think we've got the message now :)
>
> Mark (Running XP Pro, Win2K Pro, and RH 8 at home) Leith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Rajesh.Rao_at_jpmchase.com
> Sent: 14 November 2002 05:34
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> Everything good comes at a price. And never trust any system, where to shut
> down, you got to click on start ;-)
>
> Regards
> Raj
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve Perry"
> <sperry_at_spryn To: Multiple recipients of
> list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> et.com> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: Solaris vs
> Windows 2000
> root_at_fatcity.
> com
>
>
> November 13,
> 2002 09:08 PM
> Please
> respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, but that wouldn't convince him. He'd say it wasn't MS's fault. It
> was our for not securing it :(
> When you want to believe something, you don't let facts get in the way :)
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:54 AM
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Get your Boss to read the following. Jared - one more arrow in your
>
> quiver!
>
> > --6 November 2002 Bermudan Bank Site Defaced
> > Hackers may have exploited a Microsoft operating system vulnerability
> > to deface two Bermudan websites, including that of the Bank of
> > Butterfield. Bank officials say no customer data was compromised.
> > The site hosts are recommending that their clients who work with data
> > that needs to be protected switch to their Unix based hosting platform.
>
> http://www.bermudasun.bm/cgi-local/edpull.pl?cat=01News&ord=03&ed=2002-11-0
>6
>
> > [Editor's Note Schultz]: The recommendation in this news item should
> > add a considerable amount of fuel to the "whose operating system is
> > most secure" debate.]
> >
> > John Kanagaraj
> > Oracle Applications DBA
> > DBSoft Inc
> > (W): 408-970-7002
> >
> > What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the
>
> end
>
> > of your journey in this earth?
> >
> > ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of
>
> my
>
> > employer or clients **
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Steve Perry [mailto:sperry_at_sprynet.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:09 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000
> > >
> > >
> > > Jared,
> > >
> > > Here's my recollection of a losing battle. I hope this helps.
> > >
> > > I "used" to work on Unix (AIX and Solaris) and can only think
> > > about the good
> > > ol' days...
> > > Now, I work on Comcrap Servers (i mean HP) running Microslop
> > > NT and 2000.
> > > We have tons of them :)
> > > I asked my boss why they are using Windows instead of Unix.
> > > I gave him all the arguments about scalability, secure... and
> > > not having to
> > > do the weekly reboots and he listened patiently.
> > > He finally said "How much will a Sun server cost?". I said
> > > I'd have to check
> > > on it, but he said We are running a 500 gig SAP system on a
> > > $5K compaq with
> > > 6 other compaq app servers that cost less than that. He asked
> > > what the Unix
> > > would cost. I started to answer that the hardware isn't the
> > > only cost and we
> > > have an EMC disk array behind it, but he stopped me and said
> > > it doesn't
> > > matter. He walks into the CIO's office and asks for a $70K
> > > dollar Solaris
> > > box and he gets booted out of the office. He can nickle and
> > > dime him for $5K
> > > servers...
> > > I pointed out that we had to spend a million dollars on a EMC
> > > Symmetrix with
> > > Clarion and he said "exactly". We spend the big money on the
> > > I/O subsystem
> > > for a bunch of servers and we can buy all the cheap up front
> > > hardware we
> > > want. Next, he pointed out that we'd have to hire a Unix
> > > admin and that
> > > would cost money. "Everybody knows how to administer Windows"
> > > he says. I
> > > said "pressing control-alt-del isn't administration". He also
> > > said that with
> > > EMC behind the scenes we don't have to worry about
> > > distributing the I/O. EMC
> > > will take care of it for us. I said that look at all the
> > > wasted time because
> > > we have to come in weekends (at least once a month) and
> > > install Win patches
> > > that take our systems down. "That doesn't cost us anything
> > > because you're
> > > not paid hourly and that only impacts a few people" my boss
> > > says. "What
> > > about all the time wasted finding tools/scripts so we can do
> > > the same type
> > > of monitoring/troubleshooting that you can on Unix", I ask.
> > > "You only need
> > > that once in a while and we can reboot the system if can't
> > > determine the
> > > problem" he laughs. His last argument was that all the
> > > developers want the
> > > MS platform so they can write VB and .NET apps. "MS works
> > > really well with
> > > other MS products than it does with other vendors", Nobody
> > > knows java. I
> > > said "90% of the developers are contractors, we can bring in
> > > that talent".
> > > His final answer was "That was inappropriate and people with
> > > those skills
> > > cost more". -- How can you argue with that mentality? He
> > > forgets that I
> > > have mentored or helped get a few developers up to speed on
> > > Oracle and now
> > > that they understand it more, they really appreciate it.
> > >
> > > The Wintel platform for the most part has worked for us as
> > > long as you have
> > > a million dollar disk array behind it ;)
> > > Oracle's a little quirky on it - one time it won't shutdown
> > > and the next
> > > time the exact same situation it does...
> > > You're going to have a tough time arguing price unless you
> > > have all the
> > > numbers and you can hammer it home the first time - you only get one
> > > chance... Don't forget that your manager has to walk in to
> > > the office of the
> > > CIO or CFO and justify it to them.
> > > My argument would be, if you have employees with unix skills
> > > keep the unix
> > > platform. Once you get MS inhouse, it's like a virus - you
> > > will have 1000
> > > pet projects spread across the enterprise in developer's
> > > cubes and PCs with
> > > post-its that say "Don't Shutdown - Dept. XYZ Risk Mgt. System!!!".
> > > Don't forget my manager's comment that "Everybody can
> > > administer a Windows
> > > box." - Once it's in the doors, everybody will and there's no
> > > security...
> > > It reminds me of when i worked on the mainframe and we got
> > > our first Unix
> > > system in. The mainframers said we only need one mainframe to
> > > support the
> > > company and 10 unix servers. Now it's 10 unix servers and
> > > 1000 MS servers...
> > > look at all the support costs that go into supporting all that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Steve Perry
> > > INET: sperry_at_sprynet.com
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: John Kanagaraj
> > INET: john.kanagaraj_at_hds.com
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: ltiu_at_alumni.sfu.ca Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Received on Thu Nov 14 2002 - 09:54:25 CST

Original text of this message

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