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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000
Everything good comes at a price. And never trust any system, where to shut down, you got to click on start ;-)
Regards
Raj
"Steve Perry"
<sperry_at_spryn To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
et.com> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000
root_at_fatcity.
com
November 13,
2002 09:08 PM
Please
respond to
ORACLE-L
Thanks, but that wouldn't convince him. He'd say it wasn't MS's fault. It
was our for not securing it :(
When you want to believe something, you don't let facts get in the way :)
Steve
> Steve,
>
> Get your Boss to read the following. Jared - one more arrow in your
quiver!
>
> --6 November 2002 Bermudan Bank Site Defaced
> Hackers may have exploited a Microsoft operating system vulnerability
> to deface two Bermudan websites, including that of the Bank of
> Butterfield. Bank officials say no customer data was compromised.
> The site hosts are recommending that their clients who work with data
> that needs to be protected switch to their Unix based hosting platform.
>
http://www.bermudasun.bm/cgi-local/edpull.pl?cat=01News&ord=03&ed=2002-11-06
> [Editor's Note Schultz]: The recommendation in this news item should
> add a considerable amount of fuel to the "whose operating system is
> most secure" debate.]
>
> John Kanagaraj
> Oracle Applications DBA
> DBSoft Inc
> (W): 408-970-7002
>
> What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the
end
> of your journey in this earth?
>
> ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of
my
> employer or clients **
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve Perry [mailto:sperry_at_sprynet.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:09 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000
> >
> >
> > Jared,
> >
> > Here's my recollection of a losing battle. I hope this helps.
> >
> > I "used" to work on Unix (AIX and Solaris) and can only think
> > about the good
> > ol' days...
> > Now, I work on Comcrap Servers (i mean HP) running Microslop
> > NT and 2000.
> > We have tons of them :)
> > I asked my boss why they are using Windows instead of Unix.
> > I gave him all the arguments about scalability, secure... and
> > not having to
> > do the weekly reboots and he listened patiently.
> > He finally said "How much will a Sun server cost?". I said
> > I'd have to check
> > on it, but he said We are running a 500 gig SAP system on a
> > $5K compaq with
> > 6 other compaq app servers that cost less than that. He asked
> > what the Unix
> > would cost. I started to answer that the hardware isn't the
> > only cost and we
> > have an EMC disk array behind it, but he stopped me and said
> > it doesn't
> > matter. He walks into the CIO's office and asks for a $70K
> > dollar Solaris
> > box and he gets booted out of the office. He can nickle and
> > dime him for $5K
> > servers...
> > I pointed out that we had to spend a million dollars on a EMC
> > Symmetrix with
> > Clarion and he said "exactly". We spend the big money on the
> > I/O subsystem
> > for a bunch of servers and we can buy all the cheap up front
> > hardware we
> > want. Next, he pointed out that we'd have to hire a Unix
> > admin and that
> > would cost money. "Everybody knows how to administer Windows"
> > he says. I
> > said "pressing control-alt-del isn't administration". He also
> > said that with
> > EMC behind the scenes we don't have to worry about
> > distributing the I/O. EMC
> > will take care of it for us. I said that look at all the
> > wasted time because
> > we have to come in weekends (at least once a month) and
> > install Win patches
> > that take our systems down. "That doesn't cost us anything
> > because you're
> > not paid hourly and that only impacts a few people" my boss
> > says. "What
> > about all the time wasted finding tools/scripts so we can do
> > the same type
> > of monitoring/troubleshooting that you can on Unix", I ask.
> > "You only need
> > that once in a while and we can reboot the system if can't
> > determine the
> > problem" he laughs. His last argument was that all the
> > developers want the
> > MS platform so they can write VB and .NET apps. "MS works
> > really well with
> > other MS products than it does with other vendors", Nobody
> > knows java. I
> > said "90% of the developers are contractors, we can bring in
> > that talent".
> > His final answer was "That was inappropriate and people with
> > those skills
> > cost more". -- How can you argue with that mentality? He
> > forgets that I
> > have mentored or helped get a few developers up to speed on
> > Oracle and now
> > that they understand it more, they really appreciate it.
> >
> > The Wintel platform for the most part has worked for us as
> > long as you have
> > a million dollar disk array behind it ;)
> > Oracle's a little quirky on it - one time it won't shutdown
> > and the next
> > time the exact same situation it does...
> > You're going to have a tough time arguing price unless you
> > have all the
> > numbers and you can hammer it home the first time - you only get one
> > chance... Don't forget that your manager has to walk in to
> > the office of the
> > CIO or CFO and justify it to them.
> > My argument would be, if you have employees with unix skills
> > keep the unix
> > platform. Once you get MS inhouse, it's like a virus - you
> > will have 1000
> > pet projects spread across the enterprise in developer's
> > cubes and PCs with
> > post-its that say "Don't Shutdown - Dept. XYZ Risk Mgt. System!!!".
> > Don't forget my manager's comment that "Everybody can
> > administer a Windows
> > box." - Once it's in the doors, everybody will and there's no
> > security...
> > It reminds me of when i worked on the mainframe and we got
> > our first Unix
> > system in. The mainframers said we only need one mainframe to
> > support the
> > company and 10 unix servers. Now it's 10 unix servers and
> > 1000 MS servers...
> > look at all the support costs that go into supporting all that.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Steve Perry
> > INET: sperry_at_sprynet.com
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: John Kanagaraj
> INET: john.kanagaraj_at_hds.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Perry INET: sperry_at_sprynet.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: Rajesh.Rao_at_jpmchase.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Wed Nov 13 2002 - 23:33:33 CST
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