Oracle-L: RE: RE: Re[2]: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs

From: Toepke, Kevin M <ktoepke_at_trilegiant.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:43:35 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.004E920A.20021015064335@fatcity.com>

I was once a consultant on a large Payroll project and ran into a case where someone had entered a date of death 1 year in advance (something like 8/17/1999 instead of 8/17/1998). I found it in the middle of November. Because of this, the person was still getting paid. I sent email to payroll, HR and my manager questioning this "planned death"! Shortly thereafter I left the project for about 3 months and when I came back the data hadn't been changed!

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

See logical, isn't it!! *-)

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: "Robson; Peter" <pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk>
Date:       10/15/2002 2:43 AM

Ho Ho Ho - never heard of companies with dead persons on the payroll?

peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dgoulet_at_vicr.com [mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com]
> Sent: 14 October 2002 21:49
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re[2]: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star s
>
>
> I'll agree with Igor. Actually my 'preferred' option would
> be to use their
> birth date + 80 years which is the generally accepted life
> expectancy of a human
> being. Lets face it, you aren't going to employ the guy/girl
> after their dead!
> And if their not dead by then, then sure as heck they'll be retired.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Author: "Igor Neyman" <ineyman_at_perceptron.com>
> Date: 10/14/2002 12:14 PM
>
> RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star
> schemEND_EMPLOYEMENT
> date for still employed employees equals to "01/01/4000" (or any other
> pre-defined date in distant future).
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> ineyman_at_perceptron.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Adams, Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130)
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:39 PM
> Subject: RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs
> star schem
>
>
> "No application that I can reasonably think of should
> use NULLS, except those pre-81
> where there are obsolete columns."
>
> Everytime somebody says this to me, I ask them:
>
> How do you handle still employed employees in an EMPLOYEE table
> that contains a END_EMPLOYEMENT date column?
>
> What's your take?
> ----
> Matt Adams - GE Appliances - matt.adams_at_appl.ge.com
> Write a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic,
> full of love,
> treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom!
> Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with
> the letter s!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dgoulet_at_vicr.com [mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs
> star schem
>
>
>
> Jesse,
>
> I'll refrain from personal comments, but on CJ's quote,
> he's correct.
> Nulls
> are an oddity. They cannot be true or false (<column_name>
> = NULL or
> <column_name> != NULL), nor can they equal anything. They
> are in effect a
> third
> logical state of nothingness. You also have to code most
> applications with
> indicator variables to check for their existence. All in
> all a real pain in
> the
> backside. BUT, if you give me the possibility that nulls
> exist in the data I
> much prefer using them vs. many a third party solution of a
> single space. No
> application that I can reasonably think of should use
> NULLS, except those
> pre-81
> where there are obsolete columns.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Author: "Jesse; Rich" <Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com>
> Date: 10/14/2002 9:33 AM
>
> On the link below is this quote from C.J.Date:
>
> "I don't want you to think that my SQL solution to your
> problem means I
> advocate the use of nulls. Nulls are a disaster."
>
> Of course, he doesn't expound upon it (probably not a need
> except for
> dummies like me). Anyone care to comment? (On the quote,
> not on my
> dumminess...)
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
> Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com Quad/Tech
> International, Sussex, WI USA
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robson, Peter [mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk]
> > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:59 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schemas
> >
> >
> > Just for the record (and perhaps to confirm that there are
> > always two sides
> > to a story). Readers may like to see the article Chris Date
> > wrote to Ralph
> > Kemball on the subject of business rules and integrity
> constraints:
> >
> > http://www.dbdebunk.com/kimball1.htm
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jesse, Rich
> INET: Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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> Author:
> INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com
>
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>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design:
> snowflake vs star
> schem</TITLE>
> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4731.2200" name=GENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> <DIV>END_EMPLOYEMENT date for still employed
> employees equals to
> "01/01/4000" (or any other pre-defined date in distant
> future).</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Igor Neyman, OCP DBA <A
> href="mailto:ineyman_at_perceptron.com">ineyman_at_perceptron.com</A
> >   </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
> style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
> 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
> #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
> <DIV
> style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
> black">From:
> <A title=MATT.ADAMS_at_APPL.GE.COM
> href="mailto:MATT.ADAMS_at_APPL.GE.COM">Adams,
> Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130)</A> </DIV>
> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A
> title=ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
> href="mailto:ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com">Multiple recipients of
> list ORACLE-L</A>
> </DIV>
> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, October
> 14, 2002 3:39
> PM</DIV>
> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: No Nulls?
> (was: Warehouse
> design: snowflake vs star schem</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> "No application that I can reasonably think
> of should
> use NULLS, except those
> pre-81 <FONT
> size=2>where there are obsolete columns." 
> Everytime somebody says this to me, I ask
> them: 
> How do you handle still employed employees
> in an EMPLOYEE
> table that contains a END_EMPLOYEMENT date
> column? 
> What's your take? <FONT
> size=2>----
> Matt Adams - GE Appliances -
> matt.adams_at_appl.ge.com
> Write a poem about a haircut! But lofty,
> noble, tragic, full
> of love, treachery, retribution,
> quiet heroism in the
> face of certain doom! Six lines,
> cleverly rhymed, and
> every word beginning with the letter s! 
> -----Original Message----- <FONT
> size=2>From:
> dgoulet_at_vicr.com [<A
>
> href="mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com">mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com</A>]</F
> ONT> <FONT
> size=2>Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> To:
> Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <FONT
> size=2>Subject: Re:No
> Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star
> schem 
> Jesse, 
>     I'll refrain from
> personal comments, but on
>
> CJ's quote, he's correct.  Nulls <FONT
> size=2>are an
> oddity.  They cannot be true or false
> (<column_name> = NULL
> or <column_name> != NULL),
> nor can they equal
> anything.  They are in effect a third <FONT
> size=2>logical
> state of nothingness.  You also have to code most applications
> with indicator variables to check for their
> existence.  All in all a real pain in the <FONT
> size=2>backside.  BUT, if you give me the possibility
> that nulls exist in
>
> the data I much prefer using them
> vs. many a third
> party solution of a single space.  No <FONT
> size=2>application
>
> that I can reasonably think of should use NULLS, except
> those pre-81
> where there are obsolete columns. 
> Dick Goulet 
> ____________________Reply
> Separator____________________
>
> Author: "Jesse; Rich"
> <Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com>
> Date:      
> 10/14/2002 9:33
> AM 
> On the link below is this quote from
> C.J.Date: 
> "I don't want you to think that my SQL
> solution to your
> problem means I advocate the use of
> nulls.  Nulls
>
> are a disaster." 
> Of course, he doesn't expound upon it
> (probably not a need
> except for dummies like me). 
> Anyone care to
> comment?  (On the quote, not on my <FONT
> size=2>dumminess...) 
> Rich 
> Rich
>
> Jesse         &nb
> sp;  &
> nbsp;         &nb
> sp;  &nb
> sp;
> System/Database Administrator <FONT
>
> size=2>Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com     &n
> bsp;  
>      
> Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA 
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> From: Robson, Peter [<A
>
> href="mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk">mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk</A>]
> <FONT
> size=2>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:59 AM <FONT
> size=2>> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <FONT
> size=2>> Subject: RE: Warehouse design: snowflake vs
> star schemas
> > > <FONT
> size=2>> Just for the record (and perhaps to confirm
> that there are
> > always two sides
> > to
> a story). Readers may like to see the article Chris Date
> <FONT
> size=2>> wrote to Ralph >
> Kemball on the subject
>
> of business rules and integrity constraints:
> >
> > <A target=_blank
>
> href="http://www.dbdebunk.com/kimball1.htm">http://www.dbdebun
> k.com/kimball1.h
> tm</A>
> -- Please see the
> official ORACLE-L
> FAQ: <A target=_blank
>
> href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A>
> <FONT
> size=2>-- Author: Jesse,
> Rich <FONT
> size=2>  INET: Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com 
> Fat City Network Services   
> -- 858-538-5051 <A
>
> target=_blank
> href="http://www.fatcity.com">http://www.fatcity.com</A>
> San Diego,
> California        --
> Mailing list and web
> hosting services <FONT
>
> size=2>-------------------------------------------------------
> --------------</
> FONT>
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list,
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> <FONT
> size=2>-- Author: <FONT
> size=2>  INET:
>
> dgoulet_at_vicr.com 
> Fat City Network Services   
> -- 858-538-5051 <A
>
> target=_blank
> href="http://www.fatcity.com">http://www.fatcity.com</A>
> San Diego,
> California        --
> Mailing list and web
> hosting services <FONT
>
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> FONT>
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>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author:
> INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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  INET: pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk

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  INET: ktoepke_at_trilegiant.com

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Received on Tue Oct 15 2002 - 09:43:35 CDT