Oracle-L: Re[2]: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star s

From: <dgoulet_at_vicr.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:49:11 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.004E8732.20021014124911@fatcity.com>

I'll agree with Igor. Actually my 'preferred' option would be to use their birth date + 80 years which is the generally accepted life expectancy of a human being. Lets face it, you aren't going to employ the guy/girl after their dead! And if their not dead by then, then sure as heck they'll be retired.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: "Igor Neyman" <ineyman_at_perceptron.com>
Date:       10/14/2002 12:14 PM

RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schemEND_EMPLOYEMENT date for still employed employees equals to "01/01/4000" (or any other pre-defined date in distant future).

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
ineyman_at_perceptron.com

Original Message ----- From: Adams, Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130) To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:39 PM Subject: RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schem

"No application that I can reasonably think of should use NULLS, except those pre-81
where there are obsolete columns."

Everytime somebody says this to me, I ask them:

How do you handle still employed employees in an EMPLOYEE table that contains a END_EMPLOYEMENT date column?

What's your take?

Matt Adams - GE Appliances - matt.adams_at_appl.ge.com Write a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter s!

-----Original Message-----
From: dgoulet_at_vicr.com [mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schem

Jesse,

I'll refrain from personal comments, but on CJ's quote, he's correct. Nulls
 are an oddity. They cannot be true or false (<column_name> = NULL or
<column_name> != NULL), nor can they equal anything. They are in effect a
third
 logical state of nothingness. You also have to code most applications with indicator variables to check for their existence. All in all a real pain in the
 backside. BUT, if you give me the possibility that nulls exist in the data I much prefer using them vs. many a third party solution of a single space. No application that I can reasonably think of should use NULLS, except those pre-81
 where there are obsolete columns.

Dick Goulet

  ____________________Reply Separator____________________ 
  Author: "Jesse; Rich" <Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com> 
  Date:       10/14/2002 9:33 AM

On the link below is this quote from C.J.Date:

"I don't want you to think that my SQL solution to your problem means I advocate the use of nulls. Nulls are a disaster."

Of course, he doesn't expound upon it (probably not a need except for dummies like me). Anyone care to comment? (On the quote, not on my dumminess...)

Rich

  Rich Jesse                           System/Database Administrator 
  Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com              Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA 

  > -----Original Message----- 
  > From: Robson, Peter [mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk] 
  > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:59 AM 
  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  > Subject: RE: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schemas 
  > 
  > 
  > Just for the record (and perhaps to confirm that there are 
  > always two sides 
  > to a story). Readers may like to see the article Chris Date 
  > wrote to Ralph 
  > Kemball on the subject of business rules and integrity constraints:

  >
  > http://www.dbdebunk.com/kimball1.htm   --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com   --
  Author: Jesse, Rich
    INET: Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com

  Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com 
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<DIV><FONT size=2>END_EMPLOYEMENT date for still employed employees equals to

"01/01/4000" (or any other pre-defined date in distant future).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Igor Neyman, OCP DBA <A
href="mailto:ineyman_at_perceptron.com">ineyman_at_perceptron.com</A>   </DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV

 style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=MATT.ADAMS_at_APPL.GE.COM href="mailto:MATT.ADAMS_at_APPL.GE.COM">Adams,
 Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130)</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
 href="mailto:ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com">Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:39
 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse
 design: snowflake vs star schem</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
"No application that I can reasonably think of should
 use NULLS, except those pre-81 <FONT
 size=2>where there are obsolete columns." 
Everytime somebody says this to me, I ask them: 
How do you handle still employed employees in an EMPLOYEE
 table that contains a END_EMPLOYEMENT date column? 
What's your take? ----
 Matt Adams - GE Appliances - matt.adams_at_appl.ge.com
 Write a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, full
 of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter s! 
-----Original Message----- From:
 dgoulet_at_vicr.com [<A
 href="mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com">mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com</A>] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schem 
Jesse, 
    I'll refrain from personal comments, but on

CJ's quote, he's correct.  Nulls are an oddity.  They cannot be true or false (<column_name> = NULL or <column_name> != NULL), nor can they equal anything.  They are in effect a third logical state of nothingness.  You also have to code most applications with indicator variables to check for their existence.  All in all a real pain in the backside.  BUT, if you give me the possibility that nulls exist in

the data I much prefer using them vs. many a third party solution of a single space.  No application

that I can reasonably think of should use NULLS, except those pre-81
 where there are obsolete columns. 
Dick Goulet 
____________________Reply Separator____________________

 Author: "Jesse; Rich" <Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com>
 Date:       10/14/2002 9:33
AM 
On the link below is this quote from C.J.Date: 
"I don't want you to think that my SQL solution to your
problem means I advocate the use of nulls.  Nulls

are a disaster." 
Of course, he doesn't expound upon it (probably not a need
 except for dummies like me).  Anyone care to comment?  (On the quote, not on my dumminess...) 
Rich 
Rich

 Jesse            & nbsp;            &nb sp;
 System/Database Administrator Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com              
 Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA 
> -----Original Message----- >
 From: Robson, Peter [<A

  href="mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk">mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:59 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; Subject: RE: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schemas</FONT>

 > > <FONT
size=2>> Just for the record (and perhaps to confirm that there are
 > always two sides > to
a story). Readers may like to see the article Chris Date > wrote to Ralph > Kemball on the subject

of business rules and integrity constraints: >
 > <A target=_blank
 href="http://www.dbdebunk.com/kimball1.htm">http://www.dbdebunk.com/kimball1.h tm</A>
 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L
 FAQ: <A target=_blank

  href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>-- </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Author: Jesse, Rich</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&nbsp; INET: Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com</FONT> </P>

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 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Received on Mon Oct 14 2002 - 15:49:11 CDT