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RE: RE: larry want to take over your e-mai

From: Thomas Day <tday6_at_csc.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:54:27 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.00496F30.20020712135427@fatcity.com>

Well, if you've got clueless techies then the company's doomed no matter who is in charge. Though I guess that you can always blame upper management for hiring people that are just "certified" but have no real experience.

                                                                                           
                    "Grabowy,                                                              
                    Chris"               To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L      
                    <cgrabowy            <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>                            
                    @fcg.com>            cc:                                               
                    Sent by: root        Subject:     RE: RE: larry want to take over your 
                                         e-mai                                             
                                                                                           
                    07/12/2002                                                             
                    04:48 PM                                                               
                    Please                                                                 
                    respond to                                                             
                    ORACLE-L                                                               
                                                                                           
                                                                                           




That's interesting, because I personally know of two people with sales backgrounds that griped about cluesless technical people at various companies.

My worse half worked at a software company that made point-of-sales systems.
The DOS version has been out for a while and stable. The windows version is
barely finished and bugging. And yet she was expected to sell it to the DOS
customers and find new ones. She was forced to put together her own demo disk, because the techies couldnt be bothered with that nonsense. Along with handouts, glossies, etc. The demo disks were bugging, of course. The DOS customers that upgraded to Windows had to down grade because it wasn't stable, etc. DOS sales = 0, everyone does Windows. Windows sales = 0, bugging version. "What's wrong with the company?" Sales, there are none. Yeah, right.

My point is that every part of the organization has to work together. Like a well oiled engine...

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 4:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

The "model" for running a technology based company into the ground is to promote the Director (or VP) of Sales and Marketing to CEO. This sort of makes sense because it is sales and marketing that generates the revenue and all of these companies are in business to make money. The Sales and Marketing person knows how to sell. They could sell iceboxes to Eskimoes. >From their point of view Research and Development is an expense (not an investment). So no new products are developed, sales falter and, in order to keep profits up, the CEO lays off even more developers. Ultimately you're trying to sell buggy whips to automobile drivers.

When I worked at Boeing they countered this by insisting that all managers have a BS as their undergraduate degree. It didn't matter if it was from Holbokien Institute of Technology, that BS was the magic key into management. Of course you needed more than just an undergraduate degree but every manager did have some understanding of how the technology worked and the necessity of R&D.

Take a look at the top tiers of your company. If it consists of just MBAs who have Finance, Sales and Marketing backgrounds and who have never actually developed anything in the technology that they are managing then the company will eventually go under. In most cases the collapse of the dot-coms and tel-coms are perfect examples. They couldn't deliver the technology. All sizzle and no steak.

                    DENNIS

                    WILLIAMS             To:     Multiple recipients of
list
ORACLE-L
                    <DWILLIAMS           <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>

                    @LIFETOUCH.CO        cc:

                    M>                   Subject:     RE: RE: larry want to
take over your
                    Sent by: root        e-mai





                    07/12/2002

                    01:04 PM

                    Please

                    respond to

                    ORACLE-L









Patrice - I especially agree with your last statement "don't believe there is a real solution to this". Remember a technology vendor has 3 constituents, all of whom think they are the most important: stockholders, employees, customers.

   I have noticed that previous slumps in technology sales have tended to correlate with periods where there aren't compelling new products to be purchased. We could all run our current products for years to come, but then
that wouldn't produce any new sales would it? In the short term about all a vendor can do to show its stockholders is cut employees in response to falling revenues. Eventually new products will appear, but that takes much longer and if the company goes out of business before then, it is rather moot.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 20% OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:58 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I have mixed feelings about this - I think this is pervasive within the high-tech industry, and my gut feeling is that it may help explain why tech stocks are so low.

Do you think they (the industry leaders) will get the message?

I seriously doubt it. Right now the focus seems to be on cutting staff and costs rather than improving products to build loyal customers and increase revenues. It's been like this for as long as I can remember. But the industry leaders are probably in a bind: Many high quality products disappeared because a cheaper alternative came on the market.

Part of the problem is that people think short term, if they see a half-finished product at lower cost that markets itself as being "the cheaper alternative" for an expensive solution, purchasers tend to pick the cheaper option if they think they can live with it. In some cases if a well-known company says "wait 6 months, we are working on this too and our product will amaze you," customers actually decide to postpone projects based on vaporware promises.

Overall costs may actually be higher when cheaper alternatives are selected,
but in many places no one is focused enough, wise enough or around long enough to do long-term assessments. In many cases it's because everyone is too busy to cross the t's and dot all the i's.

It doesn't encourage vendors to build top-quality, long-lasting products. In my opinion.

I also don't believe there is a real solution to this, most people are happy
with the status quo.

My CDN$0.02.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Hannah,

    Friday is tomorrow, settle down everything will be all right. It's just
his
Bill complex showing through, you know that MicroSoft mantra, "We will be everything to everyone." I'm still waiting for that piece of Windows software
that insures my coffee cup remains full. At least the Oracle based one I developed warns me when it's half full and does not GPF in the process. :-)

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: johanna.doran_at_sungard.com
Date:       7/11/2002 9:18 AM

THAT DOES IT. I am starting training on DB2 right away (Yeah - I can actually
AFFORD to.... no $2000 requirements!!). I want a DB that KNOWS its a DB and
not
an all-purpose quagmire of inter-related but not really related junk just because Larry has a Bill complex!

Oracle and CHEAP cannot be used in the same sentence! Must have been a misquote...surpised they dont need a 5000 named user license!

Argh...... mental meltdown in process. One... two.... deep breath.... Is it
Friday yet?

Hannah

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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
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Author: Thomas Day
  INET: tday6_at_csc.com

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Author: Grabowy, Chris
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Author: Thomas Day
  INET: tday6_at_csc.com

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