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RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

From: Gogala, Mladen <MGogala_at_oxhp.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:35:24 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.00469BA0.20020523113524@fatcity.com>


Do this:
$define/system sys$error nla0:
and everything will be working fine. Those pesky error messages will be gone. Just kidding. There is, however an open source project called "FreeVMS"
which wants to do exactly that: to create a free version of OpenVMS for PCs, much like Linux. The home page of the project is at: http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html
There is also a commercial company providing a wonderfull emulation for various
Unix systems. They ported DCL, backup and, yes, my favorite "GOLD-PF6" EDT editor.
EVE (Extended VAX Editor) was by far the best editor I've ever worked with. Utilities like monitor (mon modes, mod disk/item=queue, mon page, mon pool) and backup (backup/ignore=interlock), help system and sysgen are unsurpassed peaks of computing and I've never seen anything even remotely as practical as an OpenVMS system. Even tricks of the trade, like "set watch" command were asthetically nice.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Sais [mailto:Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 2:58 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
>
>
>
> VMS uses logicals as much as Unix uses environment variables.
> I use vms logicals and unix env variables in my db create
> scripts. VMS logicals also work for init.ora params (eg.
> control_files) whereas in Unix, you must spell it out.
>
> gene
> *used vms b4 dos was around :)*
>
> >>> Stephen_Karniotis_at_compuware.com 05/23/02 12:33PM >>>
> I can add to Jesse's comments. VMS has always been the
> bastard of Oracle
> Platforms even though it was written for VMS initially.
> Remember that Larry
> first wrote Oracle on the VMS platform.
>
> The installation process is actually very clean as compared
> to many other
> environments. Yes, it does require additional knowledge of
> how logicals and
> symbols function, and yes OFA does not "truly" exist within
> the spectrum as
> it does on Unix. However, OFA does exist within the OpenVMS
> environment
> and is the responsibility of the DBA to exercise the
> implementation of it.
> Thus, only war-torn DBAs understand the VMS environment of
> Oracle and have a
> relatively easy time implementing on this platform.
>
> As far as logicals within the database, Jesse is correct in
> that Oracle is
> not very friendly with them if you want datafiles to use
> logicals. However,
> if you define the logicals as "terminal, rooted" logicals,
> Oracle does not
> translate them. In fact, this is the proper way to define
> data files versus
> using the device name. What happens if you have to move the
> device from
> DSA10 to DSA100, but the disk is still the same? It is
> simply moving to
> another controller. You are screwed if you use the physical
> device name.
> If you use logicals, all works well.
>
> Jesse is right. VMS is the strongest and most robust
> platform Oracle runs
> on. If not, then why did Oracle buy RDB and use Compaq
> (sorry DEC) for the
> clustering technology for 9i RAC? Contradict that one and
> you should open
> up your own database company.
>
> Enough ranting. Become familiar with Open VMS and all will be well.
>
> Thank You
>
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct: (248) 865-4350
> Mobile: (248) 408-2918
> Email: Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.com
> Web: www.compuware.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:33 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)
>
> As a side note, please please please become familiar with
> OpenVMS and more
> importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this. At least
> as far up as
> 8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by
> bastardizing their own
> install on OpenVMS. There is no OFA on OpenVMS. It is VERY
> difficult to
> create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts.
> Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although
> you can fool
> it). And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it
> simply does not
> work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).
>
> I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS. I've been working
> with it since
> v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares. HOWEVER, for some unknown
> reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms
> tend to screw
> up their VMS installs. I have no idea why. I've been
> working in Unix for
> four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the
> Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult! It's EASY!
>
> </soapbox>
>
> VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor
> marketing, and a
> poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that
> develop on it and/or
> manage the systems. Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running
> 4 Oracle 8.0.5
> instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716
> days. And that
> downtime was due to a network failure. Five "9"s, baby, and
> then some!
>
> Woah...once again, DBA need beer.
>
> Enjoy! :)
>
> Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
> Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com Quad/Tech International,
> Sussex, WI USA
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ron Rogers [mailto:RROGERS_at_galottery.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
> >
> >
> > Hemant,
> > The price I am referring to is the cost involved with
> moving from a
> > Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server. There
> are a lot of
> > company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases
> made for the
> > move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> > issues revolve around the hardware and developmental
> considerations. I
> > would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> > platform/database combination. It would allow us to create
> > and implement
> > browser based applications rather easily and would allow us
> to use the
> > 9iAS Suite of products.
> > For now all I can do is make requests for item to be
> included in the
> > budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> > Ron
> > ROR mm
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jesse, Rich
> INET: Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com
>
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> --
> Author: Karniotis, Stephen
> INET: Stephen_Karniotis_at_compuware.com
>
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> --
> Author: Gene Sais
> INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us
>
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Gogala, Mladen
  INET: MGogala_at_oxhp.com

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Received on Thu May 23 2002 - 14:35:24 CDT

Original text of this message

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