RE: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA

Management is good by default. Damagement is what I have a problem with.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yechiel Adar [mailto:adaryechiel_at_hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 11:48 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA
>
>
> I think that we can summarize this:
>
> Management is a profession by itself.
> A good technical person need to learn a new profession to
> become a good
> manager.
>
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> ----- Original Message -----
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:04 PM
>
>
> > Well, well, well I think we should also not forget that some people
> > are good when dealing with people by nature. My previous Manager was
> > not good at all when dealing with people. Well I know business is
> > business. He had a technical background, but very bad on managing
> > people, had favourates, you name them. So unfortunately for
> him there
> > was a merger with another company and he missed the gravy train. The
> > new manager is good because he knows how to handle the team.
> > There are lots of people I know that don't really have technical
> > skills but they are excellent when coming to managing
> people. It does
> > not necessarily mean that when you are technically skilled you can't
> > manage people. There is a guys I know from another Company,
> the man is
> > good, you can't fool him around, technically or management
> wise. He is
> > is just out of this World. He has got an extensive Technical
> > background plus Management skills. It's all about whether you've got
> > them or not. You can't socialize with ya Team members and you only
> > drink Coffee and go home, nothing will be okay.
> >
> > On Wed, 08 May 2002 05:53:23 -0800 Robertson Lee - lerobe
> > (lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk) wrote:
> >
> > >Yep, I definitely fall into the category you mention re. buy drinks
> > after
> > >work (sometimes !!!), leave work early when necessary etc. but also
> > would at
> > >the end of a good client win/tough time at work really
> push the boat
> > out and
> > >go for the full hog (meal/drinks etc.) It created a great deal of
> > mutual
> > >respect and also from time to time team members would organise the
> > reverse
> > >where I didn't have to put my hand in my pocket at all.
> > >Christmases were traditionally where the manager would
> give everyone
> > in the
> > >team something like a bottle of wine/small present each to
> say thanks
> > for
> > >the hard work over the year. This gradually worked the
> other way when
> > I
> > >started receiving little gifts from the guys to say thankyou for
> > helping
> > >them through the year. A happy time with a great bunch of people.
> > >
> > >Treat as you wish to be treated is a fine "acxiom" (if you forgive
> > the pun
> > >!!).
> > >
> > >Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >[mailto:Rachel_Carmichael_at_Sonymusic.com]
> > >Sent: 08 May 2002 14:33
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >see? I TOLD you all I wasn't a geek :)
> > >
> > >I think management style has a lot to do with it as well. Style
> > breaks down
> > >into:
> > >
> > >managing people
> > >managing projects
> > >
> > >in the first case, you take into consideration the people
> themselves,
> > what
> > >motivates them, what sort of "carrot" you can dangle in front of
> > them, and
> > >treat
> > >them as you would want to be treated (time off if needed, "go home
> > early,
> > >it's
> > >not busy", the occasional "boss buys the drinks after work")
> > >
> > >In the second case, you drive work by deadlines, do not
> consider that
> > the
> > >people
> > >who work for you might have a life and associated problems
> and needs
> > outside
> > >of
> > >work.
> > >
> > >I've NEVER seen a "project" manager well-liked. I've almost always
> > seen a
> > >"people" manager well-liked.
> > >
> > >And yes, in both cases, the work got done, on time.
> > >
> > >Wanna guess which type I try to be?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >|--------+----------------------->
> > >| | |
> > >| | |
> > >| | lerobe_at_acxiom|
> > >| | .co.uk |
> > >| | |
> > >| | 05/08/2002 |
> > >| | 04:38 AM |
> > >| | Please |
> > >| | respond to |
> > >| | ORACLE-L |
> > >| | |
> > >|--------+----------------------->
> > > >----------------------------------------------------|
> > > | |
> > > | To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com |
> > > | cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
> > > | Subject: RE: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA |
> > > >----------------------------------------------------|
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I see it like this.
> > >
> > >You can split it down further.
> > >
> > >Technical people fall into two categories (OK a bit of a
> > generalisation)
> > >
> > >1) Geeks
> > >2) People who are technical yet share other interests
> outside of the
> > IT
> > >world.
> > >
> > >Im my experience I find that those who fall under the
> latter category
> > make
> > >good managers.
> > >
> > >At my last job there were two production teams. A Platinunm service
> > team and
> > >a gold service team dependant on which level of service the client
> > had
> > >bought. I headed up the Platinum team, a colleague headed up the
> > other side.
> > >
> > >My interests outside of work include cooking, going to soccer
> > matches,
> > >socialising (OK, going to bars and drinking) etc. etc. etc
> > >
> > >The other guys interests at home were buying all sorts of gadgetry,
> > playing
> > >with computers, writing his own operating systems etc. etc
> > >
> > >I was regarded as a v. good manager (I still see members of my old
> > team
> > >socially and still get praised on my management style).
> > >
> > >The other guy (who still works there) was talked about behind his
> > back
> > >mistrusted and generally disliked and now works in an environment
> > where he
> > >no longer has staff under him.
> > >
> > >I think what I am trying to say is that it is OK to be a technical
> > sort and
> > >be a manager but I think to be successful you must be a "people
> > person" as
> > >well. A lot of geeks out there can only interact with machines and
> > have
> > >great difficulty in relating to members of their own species ;-)
> > >
> > >Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >Sent: 08 May 2002 08:04
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >It all depends on the background of the Manager -
> > >where have they built there careers as a Manager. My
> > >current Manager wanted me to check some info using
> > >TOAD as ORACLE was not able to answer her questions. I
> > >work for a MNC that is known thru out the world.
> > >
> > >Fazal
> > >
> > >--- Jared.Still_at_radisys.com wrote:
> > >> I'm going to chime in on Dennis with this.
> > >>
> > >> Good managers are frequently not technical.
> > >>
> > >> Bad managers are frequently technical. They tend to
> > >>
> > >> micro manage. My belief is that it is because they
> > >> don't really know how to manage.
> > >>
> > >> There are exceptions: I had an excellent manager at
> > >> a previous job. He went from tech to management and
> > >> does well at both. Rare, but possible.
> > >>
> > >> Jared
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM>
> > >> Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
> > >> 05/07/2002 03:19 PM
> > >> Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >> <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > >> cc:
> > >> Subject: RE: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Greg - Thanks for taking a stab at it. In reflecting
> > >> on the managers I've
> > >> had over the years, I disagree with your first
> > >> point. Some of my worst
> > >> managers have been those that did well at technical
> > >> work, but couldn't
> > >> manage. Some of my best managers have been
> > >> non-technical. They couldn't do
> > >> my job or second-guess me, so were forced to
> > >> concentrate asking the right
> > >> questions. They also spent more time outside the
> > >> group building bridges
> > >> with
> > >> other departments/managers/users so people outside
> > >> our department thought
> > >> we
> > >> were supporting them. This greatly diffused the
> > >> antagonism between I.S.
> > >> and
> > >> the rest of the company.
> > >> The other points are cute and true.
> > >> Dennis Williams
> > >> DBA
> > >> Lifetouch, Inc.
> > >> dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 4:24 PM
> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Good Manager: Worked their way up from programmer
> > >> to DBA to manager.
> > >> Bad Manger: Little technical experience, didn't
> > >> like programming.
> > >>
> > >> Good Manager: Patience of a Saint.
> > >> Bad Manager: Rules by the Tantrum Method.
> > >>
> > >> Good Manager: You walk away from a meeting
> > >> thinking, "That's a good
> > >> idea."
> > >> Bad Manager: You walk away from a meeting thinking,
> > >> "From now on I'll
> > >> keep
> > >> the real work to myself, and only ask for an opinion
> > >> about what colors to
> > >> use on the screens."
> > >>
> > >> Really Bad Manager: "Is he color blind??"
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > >> http://www.orafaq.com
> > >> --
> > >> Author: Greg Moore
> > >> INET: sqlgreg_at_pacbell.net
> > >>
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> > >> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> > >> INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM
> > >>
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> > >=====
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> > >Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> > > INET: lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk
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> > >Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> > > INET: lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk
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> Author: Yechiel Adar
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