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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> AW: Re[2]: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Hi Dennis
I was just working on a framework to make your dream come true ;). We are going to use a thin abstraction layer to provide peer objects to business objects in order to make them persistent (what a surprise). Old concept, but we didn't even try to do it the "one size fits all" way. The framework sole purpose is to support OLTP systems, to bundle what would usually be done using several queries by most OR wrappers into either one statement or at least a batch. I tried to make sure that SQL will not be to generic but Oracle specific. This is guaranteed by a pluggable architecture.
Time to end this before it gets too confusing ... anyway, the goal is to maintain all the database access at a central point of the application.
Regards,
Stefan
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM]
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Mai 2002 16:44
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: RE: Re[2]: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
All - I think one major point has been overlooked in this discussion of how hard it is to learn Java - OOD! Our company has been sending many developers to Java class. Almost everyone reports that the big hurdle is learning Object-Oriented Design. The Java syntax is relatively easy, simpler in fact that other languages. But for experienced designers especially, it takes awhile to get your head around the OOD principles. That was a major complaint about C++. Since it was a hybrid language, it was easy to think you were doing OOD, but actually you were developing procedurally.
I think this all has some implications for the DBA. In theory, the
database access (SQL) will be sequestered into a few Java classes, not
scattered about the application. At least that is my dream. If anyone has
experience on that aspect, I would be interested in hearing about it.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 12:13 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hello Alex,
There are several books like "Java in 21 days"... You need to learn just basics. You don't need to remember all classes (I think it's not simple task). Therefore I think it's quite possible to learn java even in week or two.
Thursday, May 02, 2002, 10:23:33 PM, you wrote:
A> It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. A> Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you A> learned in that week.
A> On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote:
>>
>> Hold on Lisa!
>>
>> Java is not complex. It's a very simple language
>> actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm
>> not using it now: I much prefer Perl.
>>
>> Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is
>> another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>> On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
>> > You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO
>> > language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be
>> > learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out
there.
>> > However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not
much
>> > tho)
>> >
>> > I was amazed in my "database" class in college that the same people
failing
>> > the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had
aced
>> > the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both
>> > classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class
>> > because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes
>> > couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight
from
>> > work.)
>> >
>> > What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths.
>> >
>> > Lisa Koivu
>> > Oracle Database Monkey Mama
>> > Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
>> > 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
>> > Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:cgrabowy_at_fcg.com]
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM
>> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > > Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
>> > >
>> > > IMHO, I don't believe that you can "properly" learn PL/SQL in a very
>> > > short period of time, or for that matter, any other language.
>> > >
>> > > I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference,
and
>> > > he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these
were
>> > > written
>> > > by developers that knew what they were doing.
>> > >
>> > > Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's
Learning
>> > > PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But
who
>> > > the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or
effort
>> > > that
>> > > I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA
skills,
>> > > plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they
blow
>> > > out
>> > > OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid
technical
>> > > alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB,
BC4J,
>> > > JDBC,
>> > > SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me
what
>> > > all
>> > > those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep
hearing
>> > > that
>> > > XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn
>> > > that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or
something
>> > > to
>> > > DML???
>> > >
>> > > Now where the heck did I hide that bottle...
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM
>> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Lisa,
>> > >
>> > > You are right about the debate between PL/SQL & Java (or anything
else
>> > > outside of the db).
>> > >
>> > > In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never*
mentioned)
>> > > is
>> > > what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled
>> > > upon.
>> > >
>> > > In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very
short
>> > > period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs
are
>> > > relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should
>> > > probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of
the
>> > > decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!).
>> > >
>> > > IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor.
>> > >
>> > > Tom Mercadante
>> > > Oracle Certified Professional
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM
>> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The
>> > > general
>> > > consensus was:
>> > >
>> > > For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is
well
>> > > suited for this purpose.
>> > >
>> > > For everything else, java could beat it.
>> > >
>> > > I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I
>> > > remember seeing these last year.
>> > >
>> > > Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire
way to
>> > > convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice.
>> > > Wish I
>> > > had more time to play...
>> > >
>> > > Lisa Koivu
>> > > Oracle Database Monkey Mama
>> > > Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
>> > > 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
>> > > Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
>> > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:Stefan.Jahnke_at_bov.de]
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM
>> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > > > Subject: AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi
>> > > >
>> > > > how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ?
>> > > > When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ?
>> > > > The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages
>> > > > within an application. It messes things up.
>> > > > But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and
>> > > > Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file
>> > > > or using a network resource ?).
>> > > > As far as I know, there is an option to compile the Java into
>> > > > platform dependend code, which would make it execute much faster
>> > > > then bytecode (and PL/SQL?), since the later has to be interpreted
at
>> > > > run-time.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Any opinions ?
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
>> > > > Von: dgoulet_at_vicr.com [mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com]
>> > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. April 2002 16:09
>> > > > An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > > > Betreff: Re:pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Lisa,
>> > > >
>> > > > It is both true & false at the same time. Obviously any
anonymous
>> > > > blocks
>> > > > you submit to the database are fully interpreted. PL/SQL that you
>> > > > store in
>> > > > the
>> > > > database as procedures, functions, and packages get partially
compiled
>> > > > into
>> > > > a
>> > > > p-code. This makes the code ready for execution, but retains a
modular
>> > > > design
>> > > > so that if your DBA reloads catproc your code is not totally
destroyed.
>> > > > Where I
>> > > > think PL/SQL buys us a lot of performance is in reducing the
>> > > > communications
>> > > > outside of the database that is otherwise needed. There's no JDBC
>> > >
>> > > driver
>> > >
>> > > > or
>> > > > other miscellaneous mess (like SQL*Net) required. It's all handled
>> > >
>> > > inside
>> > >
>> > > > the
>> > > > kernel. Now the bad part about PL/SQL that Java handles better is
>> > > > platform
>> > > > independence. You can run Java on your client, the apps server or
>> > > > database
>> > > > without a problem. PL/SQL on the other hand must be run in the
>> > >
>> > > database.
>> > >
>> > > > Dick Goulet
>> > > >
>> > > > ____________________Reply Separator____________________
>> > > > Author: "Koivu; Lisa" <lisa.koivu_at_efairfield.com>
>> > > > Date: 4/29/2002 2:52 PM
>> > > >
>> > > > Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to
manipulate
>> > >
>> > > data
>> > >
>> > > > within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like
that
>> > > > slow
>> > > > poke, Java)?
>> > > >
>> > > > I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under
>> > >
>> > > explicit/implicit
>> > >
>> > > > cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth?
>> > > >
>> > > > Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand
>> > >
>> > > this...
>> > >
>> > > > My "green" may be showing, but my gosh.
>> > > >
>> > > > Lisa Koivu
>> > > > Oracle Database Baby Oven
>> > > > Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
>> > > > 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
>> > > > Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> > > > --
>> > > > Author: Koivu, Lisa
>> > > > INET: lisa.koivu_at_efairfield.com
>> > > >
>> > > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>> > > > San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
>> > > >
-- Best regards, Sergey mailto:dsv_at_pptus.oilnet.ru -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sergey V Dolgov INET: dsv_at_pptus.oilnet.ru Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: Stefan.Jahnke_at_bov.de Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Tue May 07 2002 - 09:58:30 CDT
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