Re: WHICH UNIX FOR ORACLE?

Hi Raj, list

Few systems running Oracle require market-leading performance to function well. (There are some, don't get me wrong.) So I believe that even if an architecture is slower it can be more appropriate if it's priced right and has other important characteristics. Also, the highest-end machines of the slowest architecture can easily stomp on the mid-range machines of the other architectures. We all agree on that.

However, it's my understanding (eager to learn!) that HP is still losing in overall CPU performance to IBM, Sun and Digital/Compaq as a result of the neglect the PA-RISC architecture suffered at the hands of Rick Belluzo. I know that HP has reinvested vast sums of money into it because of the IA-64 delays, but last I heard it had improved things dramatically but not yet enough. Here are some references.

Again, I'm very interested in this subject as I'm often called upon to recommend hardware purchases and platform selections. :-)

>From http://www.itworld.com/Comp/2149/swol-0119-flavors/
(where the other suspects are also reviewed)

Hewlett-Packard HP-UX

Current release: HP-UX 11i
Platform: HP 9000 servers
Standard: Unix 95
Application score: 9 out of 10
Advantages: HP has a solid reputation for reliability and service; HP-UX comes with a substantial OS bundle including a Web server, C/C++, Windows networking, WAP (Wireless Application Protocol) services, Linux APIs, iPlanet directory server, and Veritas file system. Disadvantages: HP PA-RISC architecture is falling behind in performance relative to the competition.
Prognosis: Hewlett-Packard is the Volvo of IT: It quietly churns out ugly, bulletproof boxes that virtually care for themselves. HP is rarely first or fastest, but it packs enormous value into its Unix products. Not surprisingly, HP-UX is almost Linux-like in its completeness, with time-proven enterprise tools and services included in the bundle. HP's inclusion of the Veritas journaling file system moves HP-UX 11i to the front of the pack.
Once HP catches up to rivals' performance and certifies HP-UX as Unix 98-compliant, it could move ahead of Sun and IBM.

from... http://www.chipcenter.com/eexpert/dgilbert/dgilbert050.html "Hewlett Packard was the first manufacturer to pursue the advantages of using Intel chips in both 32-bit and 64-bit system architectures, and they played a vital role in the development of the new Itanium architecture. This path was taken to get away from pouring more money into their PA-RISC chips, among other reasons.
Now the only two "players" left in the 64-bit RISC game are IBM and Sun Microsystems. IBM has effectively unlimited "staying power" since they can perform all levels of chip design and production in-house. Sun Microsystems does not enjoy this autonomy since they outsource their manufacturing to Texas Instruments, and it is likely that this factor may ultimately hinder their ability to continue providing their own architecture of RISC processor for the server and workstation market.
Is it just a matter of time before we are left with Intel and IBM? Will the RISC architecture be able to carry forward in the server and workstation market?"

And although this following article has a IBM bias (because of the association with Apple Computer), it's an interesting read that covers the history of the PA/IA-64 fiasco well:
http://www.macedition.net/soup/soup_20020318.php

Cheers,
Paul

---
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----- Original Message -----
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 10:48 AM


Paul,
I am glad you are on your way to 'controlled molecular
restructuring and HP-iozation' (??!) ..;)
Mind telling me What made you say HP's is losing
performance race..?
I am on HP mid level (N class) 4 way server 64 bit and
our Database is 210 Gigs High end OLTP database with
 > 12 TPS and severe response time restrictions(1 sec
or less.) I am beating the response time by several
milliseconds and I haven't even maxed out the
processors yet...!!

HTH
Cheers,
RS

--- Paul Vallee <dbalist_at_pythian.com> wrote:


> This is great information Raj. I've run a test that

> is completely consistent

> with this.

>

> For instance: Go to Metalink and click the "Patches"

> item in the left menu.

> Then choose product family "Oracle Server" and

> product "RDBMS Server",

> release "9.0.1.3".

> Select the "HP9000 Series HP/UX 64-bit" platform and

> choose "All Product

> Patches".

>

> Repeat for "Sun Sparc Solaris". Although the Sun

> list is quite lengthy

> compared to most other platforms (7 entries), the HP

> list has significantly

> more patches (15 entries).

>

> For me, this is a significant decision influencer

> when choosing a platform

> for Oracle. However, HP is definitely losing the

> performance race... :-)

> Tough one.

>

> Thanks again,

> Paul

> ---

> www.pythian.com -- vallee_at_pythian.com -- 877-PYTHIAN

> Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has

> new services for

> supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring,

> 24x7 on-call, daily

> verifications, storage management, performance and

> more.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"

> <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>

> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:32 PM

>

>

> Paul ,

> ORACLE switched from solaris to HP-UX somewhere in

> mid

> 2000 for their tier I platform. ALso I think at

> this

> time compaq and HP are the only true 64 bit

> architectures available. That of course swings the

> scale in HPs favour...:)

>

> Cheers,

> RS

> --- Paul Vallee <dbalist_at_pythian.com> wrote:

> > Might as well get my two cents in... :-)

> >

> > 1. Solaris

> > Tied for 2... AIX, Tru64, HP/UX

> >

> > (leaving NUMA out of the equation for now. If you

> > like NUMA, then look into

> > the status of IBM's acquisition of Sequent, I'm

> out

> > of touch with that right

> > now.)

> >

> > Different hardware solutions from different

> vendors

> > have different

> > performance, stability and cost characteristics,

> and

> > so I'll assume that all

> > vendors have an appropriate solution on these

> > factors, this may not be the

> > case.

> >

> > With these assumptions, the primary factor for me

> is

> > the timeliness of the

> > availability of releases, patches and patchsets.

> Sun

> > Solaris 32-bit is the

> > winner on this factor on the grounds that it is

> > Oracle's internal

> > development platform. All other platforms are

> ported

> > from Sun Solaris

> > 32-bit. When that changes, my recommendation would

> > of course also change, as

> > it did when Oracle moved away from Digital/VMS.

> >

> > Anyone who has been in a situation where a bug was

> > causing service failure

> > and who heard that a patch was available for

> Solaris

> > but not your platform

> > knows where I'm coming from on this one.

> >

> > Note: for the exact same reason, never use 64-bit

> > Oracle on Solaris unless

> > you absolutely need the very-large-sga support.

> > 64-bit Oracle on Solaris is

> > slow to get patches and releases.

> >

> > Best,

> > Paul

> > ---

> > www.pythian.com -- vallee_at_pythian.com --

> 877-PYTHIAN

> > Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian

> has

> > new services for

> > supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring,

> > 24x7 on-call, daily

> > verifications, storage management, performance and

> > more.

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"

> > <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>

> > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:48 PM

> >

> >

> > What are you planning..? A religious war..:)

> > well..here is my 2 cents,IMHO

> > 1. HP-UX

> > 2. SOlaris

> > 3. AIX

> >

> > in the order of preference. I have worked with all

> > three and I found HP machines to be  reliable and

> > HP-UX easy to work with. This is not to say

> solaris

> > is

> > not but I had some nightmare stroies to tell about

> > the

> > bugs and quality of support from SUN. Again this

> is

> > only my opinion and as everybody knows OS is ,to

> > some

> > extent ,a matter of personal choice also.

> > ( Running to put on flame proof suit..:) )

> >

> > Cheers,

> > RS

> > --- "Bunyamin K. Karadeniz"

> > <bunyamink_at_havelsan.com.tr> wrote:

> > > We are searching about which unix is best ?

> > > We will apply 9ias and 8.1.7 DB . plus Oracle

> > > Portal.

> > > Can you direct me to a link for comparison about

> > > SOLARIS , AIX , HP-UX  for performance and other

> > > options ..

> > > Thank you ...

> > >

> > >

> > > Bunyamin K. Karadeniz

> > > Oracle DBA / Developer

> > > Civilian IT Department

> > > Havelsan A.S. Eskisehir yolu

> > > 7.km Ankara Turkey

> > > Phone: +90 312 2873565 / 1217

> > > Mobile : +90 535 3357729

> > >

> > > The degree of normality in a database

> > > is inversely proportional to that of its DBA.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

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> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:

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> > --

> > Author: Sakthi , Raj

> >   INET: rajan_sakthi_at_yahoo.com

> >

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=== message truncated ===


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Author: Paul Vallee
  INET: dbalist_at_pythian.com

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