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Re:RE: RE: Siebel.

From: <dgoulet_at_vicr.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:09:54 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.003D121C.20011129133026@fatcity.com>

Dennis,

    You ought to be a sales droid! That was a perfectly worded reply and in MANY instances I'll agree with you. The ease or of lack thereof in administering an application is very often decided on by damagement by whether or not they need a dedicated/specialized resource to handle it. Therefore sales droids will constantly downplay that requirement, until the check is in hand. Actually sales droids downplay a lot of requirements for their software until the deal is in the bank. Then they drop the bomb. And then people like us are left to clean up.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM>
Date:       11/29/2001 12:55 PM

Henry - The issue isn't the major RDBMS vendors, although there can be interesting variations among them when it comes to how RI is implemented. Most successful ERP packages have been around for a number of years, so they have had to be available on many platforms. On some of those platforms the popular database alternative might not have RI.

        Another aspect from the vendor's point of view is being able to create a package that will work at many, many sites and not require many support calls, especially not require an experienced DBA. While in fact, as you and I know, a serious package on Oracle should be supported by an experienced DBA, when you are in a competitive sales situation, success is spelled by "don't give the customer a reason not to buy our product." If the customer doesn't have a DBA and they get the idea your package requires a good DBA and your competitor is giving out hints that their package doesn't, then the customer might just do something stupid and buy from your competitor.

        I'll give you an example of this. I don't know anything about Oracle Applications (honest!). However, somebody told me that when it is installed, no indexes are created. If true, that means that a DBA will need to figure out the most common access paths for my site and create indexes. As an ignorant purchaser, I could easily conclude that Oracle Applications were difficult to administer.

        I fully realize that from the point of view of the experienced DBA there are a lot of reasons why life would be better if the idiot vendor would implement RI, or many other things. I am just saying that the picture looks different from the vendor's point of view, and the minuses probably outweigh the plusses, and certainly for an existing product it must be weighed against other development priorities. And if you decide to add it, then you must figure a way to allow all existing customers to upgrade without causing them a lot of problems and generating a lot of complaints.

        Oh well, that is probably more than you wanted to know. Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 11:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Just curious, but which of the major RDBMSs don't have RI?

Henry

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Another factor is that when RI was first introduced, people tended to overuse it and then performance was bad. I don't think this is such a problem today, but I think many ERP packages were either developed before RI was common to all SQL databases, or were discouraged by the initial problems. But I agree that the main factor has been that they try to be compatible with all databases and the easiest way is to maintain their own data dictionary and not implement RI in the database. Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
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Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM

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Author: Henry Poras
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Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM
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Author:
  INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com
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