From gsais@co.palm-beach.fl.us Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:33:16 -0700 From: "Gene Sais" Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:33:16 -0700 Subject: Re: RE: Backup Strategy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Guess its time for me to at least try hot backups. Guess, Lisa said it right, having come from the sysadmin side, I like my files closed. But I will have at least 1 cold backup per week to make me happy :) >>> kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com 10/04/01 18:21 PM >>> Don't get me wrong Gene, cold backups have their place. Especially in the context your talking about. You obviously don't need to have all your data recovered right? Cause if you did a cold backup without archive logs are not going to get you all your data back. I don't have my development databases in archive log mode. Actually I don't even back them up as I can rebuild them from production easily enough. The reason this irks me so much is I have a manager here that I have to go though this same fight every time I am going to do any maintenance to a database. "You have to shut down the database and do a cold backup first". Please! Why would I want to add an extra 3 hours of downtime to a mission critical app. I run a hot backup first and then start my maintenance. I am the one who has to recover the damn thing. I have yet to have a failure recovering from a hot backup (and I do have to do them from time to time). I am not sure where the misconception comes from that its "safer" to have a cold backup. Must be from people doing hot backups wrong or something. Its an ol' wives tale. Its not true. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups: 1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups. Dev & Test DB's do not need archive space. 2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle. Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio, dd, etc. the datafiles redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to tape, Startup db, Done. Take the tape to same or another server and restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems being the same). Now for Hot Backups, we have to add a step. Not a big step :) We need the arcs and need to recover the db. Gene * Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than open files :) * >>> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>> OK, I'll bite, what OS commands? As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' . Otherwise it is not necessary to use a cold backup. Jared "Gene Sais" ach.fl.us> cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: Backup Strategy root@fatcity.com 10/04/01 02:10 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery. One exception is pt in time recoveries. I do have 1 db that will be web-enabled, therefore 24x7. So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups. I am not against them, just prefer cold. Anyone have hot backup scripts? Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund. Thanks :) Gene >>> kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com 10/04/01 04:00PM >>> Why is better Gene? What is it about the files being closed that gives you the trust factor? I don't use RMAN here either but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just don't need those extra features that RMAN provides. There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have the database come down even for 5 minutes so you miht want to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups. I swear, they work. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I personally prefer cold backups over hot. Always better when the files are closed. But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman :) Gene >>> kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com 10/04/01 12:40PM >>> I agree with your export statement but I must question this one. I cannot think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup. I can think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I would not shutdown my database just to get a cold. There is a myth out there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false. Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database). Weekly cold backups are a good plan. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: Gsais@co.palm-beach.fl.us Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from thi mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: Gsais@co.palm-beach.fl.us Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: Gsais@co.palm-beach.fl.us Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this miling list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: kimberly.smith@gmd.fujitsu.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: gsais@co.palm-beach.fl.us Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).