Oracle FAQ Your Portal to the Oracle Knowledge Grid

Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!


From: MacGregor, Ian A. <ian_at_SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:49:08 -0700
Message-ID: <>

I was going to write a huge message detailing my excellent knowledege of Wordl war II history, but I cannot argue against someone who accepts that war was not declared, but insists there was a "declared" war. We speak a different language.

I respectfully suggest you check on the history of World War II in the Pacific. There wasn't much fighting going on. Lots of capitulation to Japanese demands, some local resistance, but certainly no war. I do agree we were preparing for war with Japan long before Pearl Harbor.

You have redefined MAD. Abraham Lincoln, Once asked, "If you call the tail of a dog a leg, how many legs does it have?"
"Five", someone answered. "No", said Lincoln, "Four. Calling a leg a tail doesn't make it so." I didn't mean to convey that either you or I suppported massive retaliation. I did mean to convey that "Nuking Half the Third World" is more inline with that policy as opposed to MAD as the rest of the world understands it.

I will not answer any other OT posts for a week. I too am done with this topic as far as the group is concerned.

Ian MacGregor
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:28 PM To:; MacGregor, Ian A.

> aaggggggggggggghhhh!!!!! Pearl Harbor did not occur during a declared war.
Sheesh I didn't go to the Disney flick. I hope that's not where that came from.

Will all due respect, you are dead wrong. This isn't based on some movie, it is based on historical fact. WWII started in 1939, not December 1941. A formal declaration of war between Japan and the US was inevitable long before Pearl Harbor. Japan was allied with the other Axis powers and we were already firmly committed to the Allied side. Our formal declaration of war on Japan was the day after - Dec 8, 1941, but "a declared war" had already been going on for over two years - and we had already taken sides.

> Your analogy to mutually assured destruction doesn't fit. You may be
thinking more along the lines of massive retaliation a policy pushed by John Foster Dulles, Eisehhower's Secretary of State.

MAD certainly does fit - in the context I stated. MAD is the common name for the functional policy the evolved from evolved then, although it likely never appeared under that name on any official documents. MAD worked, for both sides, as an effective deterrent in the cold war. A policy of threatened "massive retaliation" simply dosn't work well as a deterrent against terrorism. History provides ample proof, including the events of yesterday.

> I never thought Oklahoma City bombing was the work of "Islamic Fundamentalist
But our national press immediately, and with no evidence, leapt to exactly that conclusion. That was my point.

> I don't know how exactly to punish countries which harbor terrorists. Usually
the regimes are unaffected and the people suffer. Violations of embargoes grow rampant over time. Military attacks often unite People under the most despicable of leaderships. History is rife with everyday people fighting valliantly under such circumstances.

Agreed in whole. That is what makes fighting terrorism so extremely difficult.

-Don Granaman
[certifiable OraSaurus]

PS: I will now respect Jared's wishes and discontinue all further discussions on this topic.

Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
Author: MacGregor, Ian A.
  INET: ian_at_SLAC.Stanford.EDU

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Received on Wed Sep 12 2001 - 17:49:08 CDT

Original text of this message