Re[2]: Re[2]: RE: Interesting News..

Eric,

    One of these days some genius will figure out how we can do e-mail with video and audio vs. just plain text characters. Then the non-verbal messages maybe able to make the transit as well as the text which will kill a lot of these misunderstandings.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: "Eric D. Pierce" <PierceED_at_csus.edu>
Date:       9/10/2001 3:42 PM

Dick,

Short/brusque, me???? Thanks! :)

I don't mind being "called on it" if someone thinks I'm being argumentative (HELP, "am I an idiot?"), the thing that bugs me is when it is done in such a manner that the chastiser sounds like a pissy little fascist (autocratic/dicatorial/conformist/suppressive of opposition/etc).

Even worse is when they then go on to provide absolutely no further useful/interesting information on the subject (by which their otherwise cr*ppy attitude could perhaps be ever so slightly redeemed).

With infinite wisdom, the Creator of the universe (the God that doesn't think he is Larry Ellison) brought about cooperation and competition. Looks like we need to work on cooperation at this point.

I do recognize that the world isn't divided into bad evil corporate types, and innocent customers. The situation in the industry is complex, and subject to wrenching changes (eg, PCs as commodities) and bad times. If customers were more responsible about understanding the industry, and trying to support "good players" in various ways, there is no doubt that the world would be more full of "good" at this point. At the same time, the hype, arrogance, and technoinsularization  that crops up on on the corporate side is very annoying, and I'm getting really sick of it.

I think it would be useful if corporate people would try to learn a little bit about systems theory (cybernetics, self-learning and selforganization  of communities of interest, communities of competence, etc.), and gain an understanding of how there are always informal information sharing mechanisms that function as needed alternatives to the formal mechanisms of management, information control and corporate "mission".

Given that there appears to be a fair amount of awareness of the internal need to run companies in "smart mode" with respect to the internal value of such informal dynamics, one has to wonder if it is just too hard to deal with the chaos involved in extending those methods to external relations with customers?

As always, your comrade in visualizing whirled peas, ep

On 10 Sep 2001, at 16:37, <dgoulet_at_vicr.com> scribbled with alacrity and cogency:

Date sent:              Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:37:43 -0400
To:                     "Eric D. Pierce" <PierceED_at_csus.edu>,
        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>

> To All,
>
> As much as this thread is apparently getting a little terse (No I'm NOT
> getting on ANYBODY's case) it is a relief to realize that I'm not the only
> person who gets barbecued for what I believe is a normal, non argumentative
> e-mail message. If I have a nickel for every time one of my local colleagues
> called me a bonehead for a message, I could have retired last year!
>
> Guess Eric & I are both in the STBU club! Eric, welcome aboard! :-)
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Subject: Re: RE: Interesting News..
> Author: "Eric D. Pierce" <PierceED_at_csus.edu>
> Date: 9/10/2001 1:17 PM
>
> K-
>
> I apparently made the mistake of thinking that the US constitution
> says that there is a right to FREE SPEECH in this friggin country.
>
> I'm reporting what a reseller is saying about his several years of
> experience, and what bugs the daylights out of the people that
> ACTUALLY PAY MONEY FOR A PRODUCT (known as "customers" for those that
> have never heard the word before).
>
> Note that the resalescritter was specifically addressing the
> headaches reported by CUSTOMERS at sites using service offerings in
> the "SUB-enterprise" category.
>
> Anyone feel free to call me an idiot (HELP), that I'm wrong, or
> whatever, but absent the technical merits of a "pro-Compaq" position
> having been presented in detail, all I hear is someone acting like a
> pissy little fascist.
>
> My writing wasn't exacty at the level of the Great Bard, but it would
> help if people would read a bit more carefully before they barf.
>
> Speaking of which, I'm sick of all the crap (lying/etc.) from vendors
> and their employees and the friends of their employees, and having
> them expecting the customers to kiss their a$$es all the time because
> they are some big megacorp.
>
> Of course the good news is that I can now go around telling people
> that if they want good services, they should buy IBM since there are
> so many a$$holes in the Compaq world.
>
> brgrds,
> ep
>
> [ via ORACLE-L Digest -- Volume 2001, Number 251]
>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > From: Kimberly Smith <kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com>
> > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:16:35 -0700
> > Subject: RE: Interesting News..
> >
> > Jon, you need to get some thick skin. My company is destroyed quite often
> > in this list (although it has been a while).
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 4:50 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Eric:
> >
> > While I can appreciate that your opinion of the Compaq Services division
> > might be less than positive, would you please, for the sake of those who
> > actually work for these companies, be a little less dramatic in your
> > expression of that opinion.
> >
> > Jon Walthour
> > Oracle Database Administrator
> > COMPAQ DBA Team
> > Cincinnati, Ohio
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:22 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > According to our hardware resalescritter: especially for anything
> > below large enterprise level, both HP and Compaq services suck.
> >
> > so, I guess the objective is to create a new company who services
> > suck even more than either individually?
> >
> > Synergy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > > Guy Hammond wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On the contrary, I'd say this is a godsend for Sun. Compaq made a mess
> > > > of truly epic proportions when they tried to integrate DEC and Tandem
> > > > into their operations. HP did just as badly with Apollo.
> >
> > ...

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