Re: !! *Very* important Oracle-L message !!

 Do I have an "Amen?"

 Yes !

"Orr, Steve" wrote:
>
> I like Jeremiah's idea.
>
> All the "sermonizing" about the value of the list and how we should be
> required to put something in the "offering basket" is just so much
> "preaching to the choir." :-)
>
> I would gladly pay a subscription fee because I understand the value of the
> list after having been on it a few years. HOWEVER, a newcomer may not
> appreciate the value of the list without having seen any content over time
> (as we all have). Requiring an up front entrance fee would probably scare
> them off like "fire and brimstone sermon." If entrance to the list is free
> then we can better "evangelize new believers" in the list. Broad
> participation keeps the list healthy. In order to keep the list healthy we
> need to be constantly adding new members and the best way to do this is to
> make it free and easy. Another approach would be to make the first 6 months
> free but this could be an administrative burden to enforce. So I think
> voluntary contributions are the way to go... Do I have an "Amen?"
>
> IMHO,
> Steve Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:27 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
> On my web page I maintain an Amazon.com payments paybox, which is for
> collecting anonymous donations. I think if Bruce sets up a paybox for
> each list he hosts free of charge, and included a pledge request in
> the list footers, there will be a steady stream of donations.
>
> Amazon calls this the "Honor System," and it can be found at:
>
> http://auctions.amazon.com/exec/varzea/subst/fx/home.html
>
> It is basically like paypal, etc, but you can put the paybox inline
> with any HTML, and it allows anonymous donations. The fee to Amazon is
> 15% of the total payment per transaction plus 15 cents.
>
> I work for Amazon, so feel free to flame me for shamelessly promoting
> my own product as a solution to this. As an act of contrition, I
> promise to pay US$50 into any form of collection that Bruce sets up,
> Amazon or not.
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Anjan Thakuria wrote:
>
> > Can we just start pledging ..We have got to keep this form going under.
> Ideas
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Sent: 28 August 2001 23:29
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > > Ok, now that I have your attention, please read the following message
> from
> > > Bruce Bergman,
> > > owner of fatcity.com. It concerns the future of this list.
> > >
> > > Please read the entire message before replying.
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Hello ORACLE-L list members --
> > >
> > > I would like to take a few minutes of your time for a "State of the
> Union"
> > > address, if you can call it that. This is a rather serious message, and
> I
> > > request that you take the time to read this message entirely. I've got
> a
> > > problem that needs resolution this week, and I'm hoping you folks can
> help
> > > me come to a conclusion. This message turned out to be fairly
> > > long-winded, so please excuse me for that. :-)
> > >
> > > Fat City (fatcity.com) is my company, and I am the provider of the list
> > > services that you receive ORACLE-L through. I've been hosting Internet
> > > mailing lists for over 10 years, and carry quite a few lists, including
> a
> > > big selection of Oracle-related lists (14, in fact). Fat City has
> always
> > > been a labor of love for me. Over the years it has rarely generated any
> > > income at all, and it usually does not cover my expenses -- most of the
> > > time
> > > it is a monthly loss for me. The vast majority of my 60+ mailing lists
> > > have
> > > been hosted for free, at my expense (as is the ORACLE-L list, for
> example).
> > > Yet I have absorbed these costs because I enjoy hosting discussion lists
> > > and I know a lot of lists can't afford to pay for quality service.
> > >
> > > I am soon to be one of the Rhythms Orphans. Rhythms, my DSL provider,
> has
> > > gone bankrupt and will be out of business by 10-Sep-2001. I need to
> find
> > > another provider of high-speed Internet in order to continue operations.
> I
> > > am at the point of either folding shop completely and going out of
> business
> > > myself, or trying to make Fat City a viable, money-making endeavor. I
> need
> > > to make this decision by this Friday (for financial and planning
> reasons).
> > > After Friday, I am committed one way or the other.
> > >
> > > My upstream ISP and I are on very good terms, and in fact, I've been a
> > > customer of theirs since 1985! As a result, they have graciously
> offered
> > > to help me out of this situation at considerable expense to themselves.
> > > I'm not at liberty to discuss the terms of the contract I would engage
> in
> > > with them, but suffice to say that is one of those once-in-a-lifetime
> > > opportunities that I'd be a fool to pass up. I have this offer
> personally
> > > from the President of that company, if I want it. Simply said, my
> ability
> > > to take them up on their offer and switch Fat City over to a dedicated
> T1
> > > or
> > > better solution revolves around being able to generate quite a bit of
> > > additional
> > > income per month, and very soon. In an effort to be open and up-front
> with
> > > you folks about this, I basically need to generate an additional $500
> more
> > > per
> > > month. Right now that seems daunting, but I've been working hard to line
> up
> > > that
> > > additional income, and I believe I can do it. Just not right away. My
> > > estimates are that it will take me four or five months to come up to
> that
> > > level. I need to get out there and sell website hosting and list
> hosting
> > > packages, and get new customers. That takes time, unfortunately. I
> need a
> > > buffer to enable me to get past this startup phase.
> > >
> > > After some discussions with Jared (the list owner), and some
> encouragement
> > > from him, I am coming to you to ask for you help in keeping Fat City
> > > financially afloat until I can be self sufficient. I'm not asking for a
> > > specific dollar amount from anyone, nor am I *expecting* anything from
> you
> > > folks. But if it is within your power to contribute some money towards
> > > this
> > > end (and yes, I know these are hard financial times for everyone), I am
> > > hoping you can help. If I can get sufficient promise of funds that will
> > > see
> > > me through the next few months, I am willing to jump in with both feet
> and
> > > make Fat City a viable business. If it looks like the contributions are
> > > not
> > > sufficient to enable me to do that, I will cease operations within the
> next
> > > 45-60 days.
> > >
> > > Let me be clear about a few things: If I *do* cease operations, I will
> give
> > > all of my lists time to find new list providers, and will make every
> effort
> > > to aid the shift over to the new provider, provide list dumps, archives,
> > > mail forwarding, etc. Even though Rhythms goes out of business on
> > > 10-Sep-2001, I have secured service until at least 10-Oct-2001 to enable
> > > this to happen. So don't worry about having to rush into your
> conversion
> > > if
> > > things don't work out. I would also like to clearly state that this is
> not
> > > some attempt to blackmail or coerce anyone into coming up with money.
> This
> > > will either succeed or fail based on what you folks can comfortably and
> > > willingly contribute. If I had the ability to cover this startup period
> > > myself,
> > > I would definitely do so. If Fat City ultimately goes under, it wil NOT
> be
> > > your fault, and I hold no one to blame. That's just how the Internet
> cards
> > > are right now. I do not want anyone to contribute if they don't have
> > > the money, or if things are tight at home, or anything like that. I
> would
> > > like contributions to be made from those who are able to make such a
> > > contribution willingly.
> > >
> > > Also, I don't want anyone to send any money right now. Basically I just
> > > want a show of hands of those who could contribute something to this
> cause.
> > > Send me (bruceb_at_fatcity.com) or Jared (jkstill_at_cybcon.com) an E-mail
> saying
> > > what amount you'd be willing to contribute. If you would rather donate
> > > anonymously, perhaps Jared could collect those donations. I will "pass
> > > around the hat" until Friday morning, at which point I'll see if there
> were
> > > sufficient pledges to enable me to move forward. If it seems like there
> > > is,
> > > then I will come up with a way for you to honor your pledge (probably
> > > either
> > > directly to me via check or via PayPal, most likely). The funds can be
> > > collected in the next few weeks, but I must make my decision on Friday.
> I
> > > apologize for the late notice on this, but I was not given this offer by
> my
> > > ISP until late last week.
> > >
> > > In return for your contributions, I promise the following things:
> > >
> > > - I will use all contributions ONLY for the express purpose of paying
> for
> > > my
> > > Internet service costs
> > > - I will continue to host the ORACLE-L list for free for the forseeable,
> > > indefinite future
> > > - I will make no more requests of this list for contributions of this
> sort
> > > - I will provide a full accounting and update to the list on the costs
> and
> > > how the funds are being used
> > > - I will make improvements to the list that will enhance your features
> and
> > > performance (for example, faster turn-around on list postings, etc)
> > > - I will at least carry though for the next calendar year unless I have
> > > catastrophic financial failure
> > >
> > > Please note that the ODTUG organization is already making a considerable
> > > contribution by way of a monthly payment for service, so they are
> already
> > > aware of this situation and are actively helping out. There are a good
> > > number of people here who are on the ODTUG lists too, so I wanted to
> point
> > > that out ahead of time and let you know that they are being very
> helpful.
> > >
> > > Another way you could contribute would be to come to Fat City for your
> list
> > > hosting or website hosting needs. I had just started offering website
> > > hosting services before this mess started, and obviously, a monthly
> paying
> > > customer is far better than a one-time contribution. If you go to
> > > http://www.fatcity.com and click on the "Website Hosting" link, you can
> > > check out the packages I offer. In an effort to get new customers, I am
> > > willing to waive all setup fees in order to bring new customers on
> board.
> > > If you become a customer here in the next couple of months, that would
> help
> > > tremendously. If you have an interest in hosting your website (personal
> or
> > > business) with us, -or- a want to start a new mailing list, please
> contact
> > > me for details.
> > >
> > > I know this is a lot to ask of you folks. You are entirely welcome to
> just
> > > tell me to jump in a lake, and that that's how business is right now.
> But
> > > I
> > > know many of you personally, either from ODTUG conferences or from other
> > > Oracle events, and I also know how staunchly you support this mailing
> list
> > > with useful information, humor, helpfulness and an eye toward quality.
> I
> > > would like to think that you find Fat City to be the best place to host
> > > your
> > > list, and that you will want to help me out so that I can continue to
> > > provide the list to you folks free of charge. I made a promise to Jared
> > > years ago to host this list for free because I think it is one of the
> best
> > > and most valuable resources out there. I intend to honor that promise
> to
> > > him by continuing to provide it for free. If it turns out that I must
> > > close
> > > shop and call it quits, at least I will have known I did my best to make
> it
> > > succeed, and I did so without having to reneg on committments I had
> > > made in the past.
> > >
> > > I am being open and honest with everyone because I believe that this is
> the
> > > best way to succeed. I believe you appreciate this kind of approach,
> and I
> > > want you to know that regardless of what happens, I certainly appreciate
> > > every consideration you give this request. Whether or not this
> succeeds, I
> > > know that you are a great group of people and I wish this list the best
> > > luck
> > > in this life, or the next. :-)
> > >
> > > Remember, time is of the essence. The sooner I hear from people who
> > > can help, the sooner I can nail down a line of approach. If you have
> any
> > > questions or concerns, please E-mail me.
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Orr, Steve
> INET: sorr_at_rightnow.com
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Dias Costa
  INET: dcosta_at_lnec.pt

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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