RE: !! *Very* important Oracle-L message !!

I also would be willing to pay a annual/monthly subscription fee.

Rodd Holman

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 8/29/01, 1:10:59 PM, Kathy Duret <KathyD_at_belkin.com> wrote regarding RE: !! *Very* important Oracle-L message !!:

> IMHO

> How about a monthly and a yearly subscription fee.

> So newbies could join and pay a monthly subscription so if they don't
like it they could bail.

> Other like me who would trade the list for anything could pay a yearly
subscription fee.

> The yearly fee could be a bit lower than the monthly fee to encourage
people to pay the whole year up front. It would be less overhead for Bruce dealing with payments every month.

> In any case I am will either to do a subscription or voluntary
contribution. This list has save me so much time and money (and frustration not having to always learn the hard way!). Not to mention made me a better DBA so I can command a better salary.

> If Bruce does start making money he can always revert the list back to
being free. Or he can wait a bit and recoup some of the money he has put into the list as that is only fair. Bruce shouldn't feel guilty about anything!

> Kathy

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:22 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

> I think a subscription is a decent suggestion. I know Bruce wants to keep
it
> free but it still sounds the most feasible to me. After all the
"electronic
> friends" I have made on the list, and of course its primary aim as a
> second-to-none technical resource/forum, I would hate to see it go.

> Regards

> Lee

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: 29 August 2001 11:36
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: 28 August 2001 23:29
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

> Ok, now that I have your attention, please read the following message
from
> Bruce Bergman,
> owner of fatcity.com. It concerns the future of this list.

> Please read the entire message before replying.

> Thank you.

> Jared Still ( List Owner )

> -------------------------------------------

> Hello ORACLE-L list members --

> I would like to take a few minutes of your time for a "State of the
Union"
> address, if you can call it that. This is a rather serious message, and
I
> request that you take the time to read this message entirely. I've got a
> problem that needs resolution this week, and I'm hoping you folks can
help
> me come to a conclusion. This message turned out to be fairly
> long-winded, so please excuse me for that. :-)

> Fat City (fatcity.com) is my company, and I am the provider of the list
> services that you receive ORACLE-L through. I've been hosting Internet
> mailing lists for over 10 years, and carry quite a few lists, including a
> big selection of Oracle-related lists (14, in fact). Fat City has always
> been a labor of love for me. Over the years it has rarely generated any
> income at all, and it usually does not cover my expenses -- most of the
> time
> it is a monthly loss for me. The vast majority of my 60+ mailing lists
> have
> been hosted for free, at my expense (as is the ORACLE-L list, for
example).
> Yet I have absorbed these costs because I enjoy hosting discussion lists
> and I know a lot of lists can't afford to pay for quality service.

> I am soon to be one of the Rhythms Orphans. Rhythms, my DSL provider,
has
> gone bankrupt and will be out of business by 10-Sep-2001. I need to find
> another provider of high-speed Internet in order to continue operations.
I
> am at the point of either folding shop completely and going out of
business
> myself, or trying to make Fat City a viable, money-making endeavor. I
need
> to make this decision by this Friday (for financial and planning
reasons).
> After Friday, I am committed one way or the other.

> My upstream ISP and I are on very good terms, and in fact, I've been a
> customer of theirs since 1985! As a result, they have graciously offered
> to help me out of this situation at considerable expense to themselves.
> I'm not at liberty to discuss the terms of the contract I would engage in
> with them, but suffice to say that is one of those once-in-a-lifetime
> opportunities that I'd be a fool to pass up. I have this offer
personally
> from the President of that company, if I want it. Simply said, my
ability
> to take them up on their offer and switch Fat City over to a dedicated T1
> or
> better solution revolves around being able to generate quite a bit of
> additional
> income per month, and very soon. In an effort to be open and up-front
with
> you folks about this, I basically need to generate an additional $500
more
> per
> month. Right now that seems daunting, but I've been working hard to line
up
> that
> additional income, and I believe I can do it. Just not right away. My
> estimates are that it will take me four or five months to come up to that
> level. I need to get out there and sell website hosting and list hosting
> packages, and get new customers. That takes time, unfortunately. I need
a
> buffer to enable me to get past this startup phase.

> After some discussions with Jared (the list owner), and some
encouragement
> from him, I am coming to you to ask for you help in keeping Fat City
> financially afloat until I can be self sufficient. I'm not asking for a
> specific dollar amount from anyone, nor am I *expecting* anything from
you
> folks. But if it is within your power to contribute some money towards
> this
> end (and yes, I know these are hard financial times for everyone), I am
> hoping you can help. If I can get sufficient promise of funds that will
> see
> me through the next few months, I am willing to jump in with both feet
and
> make Fat City a viable business. If it looks like the contributions are
> not
> sufficient to enable me to do that, I will cease operations within the
next
> 45-60 days.

> Let me be clear about a few things: If I *do* cease operations, I will
give
> all of my lists time to find new list providers, and will make every
effort
> to aid the shift over to the new provider, provide list dumps, archives,
> mail forwarding, etc. Even though Rhythms goes out of business on
> 10-Sep-2001, I have secured service until at least 10-Oct-2001 to enable
> this to happen. So don't worry about having to rush into your conversion
> if
> things don't work out. I would also like to clearly state that this is
not
> some attempt to blackmail or coerce anyone into coming up with money.
This
> will either succeed or fail based on what you folks can comfortably and
> willingly contribute. If I had the ability to cover this startup period
> myself,
> I would definitely do so. If Fat City ultimately goes under, it wil NOT
be
> your fault, and I hold no one to blame. That's just how the Internet
cards
> are right now. I do not want anyone to contribute if they don't have
> the money, or if things are tight at home, or anything like that. I
would
> like contributions to be made from those who are able to make such a
> contribution willingly.

> Also, I don't want anyone to send any money right now. Basically I just
> want a show of hands of those who could contribute something to this
cause.
> Send me (bruceb_at_fatcity.com) or Jared (jkstill_at_cybcon.com) an E-mail
saying
> what amount you'd be willing to contribute. If you would rather donate
> anonymously, perhaps Jared could collect those donations. I will "pass
> around the hat" until Friday morning, at which point I'll see if there
were
> sufficient pledges to enable me to move forward. If it seems like there
> is,
> then I will come up with a way for you to honor your pledge (probably
> either
> directly to me via check or via PayPal, most likely). The funds can be
> collected in the next few weeks, but I must make my decision on Friday.
I
> apologize for the late notice on this, but I was not given this offer by
my
> ISP until late last week.

> In return for your contributions, I promise the following things:

> - I will use all contributions ONLY for the express purpose of paying for
> my
> Internet service costs
> - I will continue to host the ORACLE-L list for free for the forseeable,
> indefinite future
> - I will make no more requests of this list for contributions of this
sort
> - I will provide a full accounting and update to the list on the costs
and
> how the funds are being used
> - I will make improvements to the list that will enhance your features
and
> performance (for example, faster turn-around on list postings, etc)
> - I will at least carry though for the next calendar year unless I have
> catastrophic financial failure

> Please note that the ODTUG organization is already making a considerable
> contribution by way of a monthly payment for service, so they are already
> aware of this situation and are actively helping out. There are a good
> number of people here who are on the ODTUG lists too, so I wanted to
point
> that out ahead of time and let you know that they are being very helpful.

> Another way you could contribute would be to come to Fat City for your
list
> hosting or website hosting needs. I had just started offering website
> hosting services before this mess started, and obviously, a monthly
paying
> customer is far better than a one-time contribution. If you go to
> http://www.fatcity.com and click on the "Website Hosting" link, you can
> check out the packages I offer. In an effort to get new customers, I am
> willing to waive all setup fees in order to bring new customers on board.
> If you become a customer here in the next couple of months, that would
help
> tremendously. If you have an interest in hosting your website (personal
or
> business) with us, -or- a want to start a new mailing list, please
contact
> me for details.

> I know this is a lot to ask of you folks. You are entirely welcome to
just
> tell me to jump in a lake, and that that's how business is right now.
But
> I
> know many of you personally, either from ODTUG conferences or from other
> Oracle events, and I also know how staunchly you support this mailing
list
> with useful information, humor, helpfulness and an eye toward quality. I
> would like to think that you find Fat City to be the best place to host
> your
> list, and that you will want to help me out so that I can continue to
> provide the list to you folks free of charge. I made a promise to Jared
> years ago to host this list for free because I think it is one of the
best
> and most valuable resources out there. I intend to honor that promise to
> him by continuing to provide it for free. If it turns out that I must
> close
> shop and call it quits, at least I will have known I did my best to make
it
> succeed, and I did so without having to reneg on committments I had
> made in the past.

> I am being open and honest with everyone because I believe that this is
the
> best way to succeed. I believe you appreciate this kind of approach, and
I
> want you to know that regardless of what happens, I certainly appreciate
> every consideration you give this request. Whether or not this succeeds,
I
> know that you are a great group of people and I wish this list the best
> luck
> in this life, or the next. :-)

> Remember, time is of the essence. The sooner I hear from people who
> can help, the sooner I can nail down a line of approach. If you have any
> questions or concerns, please E-mail me.

> Thanks everyone!

> Bruce Bergman
> President, Fat City Network Services

> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author:
> INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jenner Mike
> INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> The information contained in this communication is
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> named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> INET: lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk

> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Kathy Duret
> INET: KathyD_at_belkin.com

> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Rodd Holman
  INET: rodney.holman_at_lodgenet.com

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).