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RE: !! *Very* important Oracle-L message !!

From: John Kanagaraj <>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:28:50 -0700
Message-ID: <>


Count me in. I would suggest a standard amount of say US$20 (or more) per month and see a show of hands (including mine), and take it from there. For convenience's sake, I suppose this will mostly be from US based Listers. C'mon guys and gals - we don't even have to dig deep into our pockets for this.

John Kanagaraj
Oracle Applications DBA
DB Soft Inc
Work : (408) 970 7002

Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at

>-----Original Message-----
>From: []
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:29 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: !! *Very* important Oracle-L message !!
>Ok, now that I have your attention, please read the following
>message from
>Bruce Bergman,
>owner of It concerns the future of this list.
>Please read the entire message before replying.
>Thank you.
>Jared Still ( List Owner )
>Hello ORACLE-L list members --
>I would like to take a few minutes of your time for a "State
>of the Union"
>address, if you can call it that. This is a rather serious
>message, and I
>request that you take the time to read this message entirely.
>I've got a
>problem that needs resolution this week, and I'm hoping you
>folks can help
>me come to a conclusion. This message turned out to be fairly
>long-winded, so please excuse me for that. :-)
>Fat City ( is my company, and I am the provider of the list
>services that you receive ORACLE-L through. I've been hosting Internet
>mailing lists for over 10 years, and carry quite a few lists,
>including a
>big selection of Oracle-related lists (14, in fact). Fat City
>has always
>been a labor of love for me. Over the years it has rarely
>generated any
>income at all, and it usually does not cover my expenses -- most of the
>it is a monthly loss for me. The vast majority of my 60+ mailing lists
>been hosted for free, at my expense (as is the ORACLE-L list,
>for example).
>Yet I have absorbed these costs because I enjoy hosting
>discussion lists
>and I know a lot of lists can't afford to pay for quality service.
>I am soon to be one of the Rhythms Orphans. Rhythms, my DSL
>provider, has
>gone bankrupt and will be out of business by 10-Sep-2001. I
>need to find
>another provider of high-speed Internet in order to continue
>operations. I
>am at the point of either folding shop completely and going
>out of business
>myself, or trying to make Fat City a viable, money-making
>endeavor. I need
>to make this decision by this Friday (for financial and
>planning reasons).
>After Friday, I am committed one way or the other.
>My upstream ISP and I are on very good terms, and in fact, I've been a
>customer of theirs since 1985! As a result, they have
>graciously offered
>to help me out of this situation at considerable expense to themselves.
>I'm not at liberty to discuss the terms of the contract I
>would engage in
>with them, but suffice to say that is one of those once-in-a-lifetime
>opportunities that I'd be a fool to pass up. I have this
>offer personally
>from the President of that company, if I want it. Simply
>said, my ability
>to take them up on their offer and switch Fat City over to a
>dedicated T1
>better solution revolves around being able to generate quite a bit of
>income per month, and very soon. In an effort to be open and
>up-front with
>you folks about this, I basically need to generate an
>additional $500 more
>month. Right now that seems daunting, but I've been working
>hard to line up
>additional income, and I believe I can do it. Just not right away. My
>estimates are that it will take me four or five months to come
>up to that
>level. I need to get out there and sell website hosting and
>list hosting
>packages, and get new customers. That takes time,
>unfortunately. I need a
>buffer to enable me to get past this startup phase.
>After some discussions with Jared (the list owner), and some
>from him, I am coming to you to ask for you help in keeping Fat City
>financially afloat until I can be self sufficient. I'm not
>asking for a
>specific dollar amount from anyone, nor am I *expecting*
>anything from you
>folks. But if it is within your power to contribute some money towards
>end (and yes, I know these are hard financial times for everyone), I am
>hoping you can help. If I can get sufficient promise of funds
>that will
>me through the next few months, I am willing to jump in with
>both feet and
>make Fat City a viable business. If it looks like the
>contributions are
>sufficient to enable me to do that, I will cease operations
>within the next
>45-60 days.
>Let me be clear about a few things: If I *do* cease
>operations, I will give
>all of my lists time to find new list providers, and will make
>every effort
>to aid the shift over to the new provider, provide list dumps,
>mail forwarding, etc. Even though Rhythms goes out of business on
>10-Sep-2001, I have secured service until at least 10-Oct-2001
>to enable
>this to happen. So don't worry about having to rush into your
>things don't work out. I would also like to clearly state
>that this is not
>some attempt to blackmail or coerce anyone into coming up with
>money. This
>will either succeed or fail based on what you folks can comfortably and
>willingly contribute. If I had the ability to cover this
>startup period
>I would definitely do so. If Fat City ultimately goes under,
>it wil NOT be
>your fault, and I hold no one to blame. That's just how the
>Internet cards
>are right now. I do not want anyone to contribute if they don't have
>the money, or if things are tight at home, or anything like
>that. I would
>like contributions to be made from those who are able to make such a
>contribution willingly.
>Also, I don't want anyone to send any money right now.
>Basically I just
>want a show of hands of those who could contribute something
>to this cause.
>Send me ( or Jared ( an
>E-mail saying
>what amount you'd be willing to contribute. If you would rather donate
>anonymously, perhaps Jared could collect those donations. I will "pass
>around the hat" until Friday morning, at which point I'll see
>if there were
>sufficient pledges to enable me to move forward. If it seems
>like there
>then I will come up with a way for you to honor your pledge (probably
>directly to me via check or via PayPal, most likely). The funds can be
>collected in the next few weeks, but I must make my decision
>on Friday. I
>apologize for the late notice on this, but I was not given
>this offer by my
>ISP until late last week.
>In return for your contributions, I promise the following things:
>- I will use all contributions ONLY for the express purpose of
>paying for
>Internet service costs
>- I will continue to host the ORACLE-L list for free for the
>indefinite future
>- I will make no more requests of this list for contributions
>of this sort
>- I will provide a full accounting and update to the list on
>the costs and
>how the funds are being used
>- I will make improvements to the list that will enhance your
>features and
>performance (for example, faster turn-around on list postings, etc)
>- I will at least carry though for the next calendar year unless I have
>catastrophic financial failure
>Please note that the ODTUG organization is already making a
>contribution by way of a monthly payment for service, so they
>are already
>aware of this situation and are actively helping out. There are a good
>number of people here who are on the ODTUG lists too, so I
>wanted to point
>that out ahead of time and let you know that they are being
>very helpful.
>Another way you could contribute would be to come to Fat City
>for your list
>hosting or website hosting needs. I had just started offering website
>hosting services before this mess started, and obviously, a
>monthly paying
>customer is far better than a one-time contribution. If you go to
> and click on the "Website Hosting" link, you can
>check out the packages I offer. In an effort to get new
>customers, I am
>willing to waive all setup fees in order to bring new
>customers on board.
>If you become a customer here in the next couple of months,
>that would help
>tremendously. If you have an interest in hosting your website
>(personal or
>business) with us, -or- a want to start a new mailing list,
>please contact
>me for details.
>I know this is a lot to ask of you folks. You are entirely
>welcome to just
>tell me to jump in a lake, and that that's how business is
>right now. But
>know many of you personally, either from ODTUG conferences or
>from other
>Oracle events, and I also know how staunchly you support this
>mailing list
>with useful information, humor, helpfulness and an eye toward
>quality. I
>would like to think that you find Fat City to be the best place to host
>list, and that you will want to help me out so that I can continue to
>provide the list to you folks free of charge. I made a
>promise to Jared
>years ago to host this list for free because I think it is one
>of the best
>and most valuable resources out there. I intend to honor that
>promise to
>him by continuing to provide it for free. If it turns out that I must
>shop and call it quits, at least I will have known I did my
>best to make it
>succeed, and I did so without having to reneg on committments I had
>made in the past.
>I am being open and honest with everyone because I believe
>that this is the
>best way to succeed. I believe you appreciate this kind of
>approach, and I
>want you to know that regardless of what happens, I certainly
>every consideration you give this request. Whether or not
>this succeeds, I
>know that you are a great group of people and I wish this list the best
>in this life, or the next. :-)
>Remember, time is of the essence. The sooner I hear from people who
>can help, the sooner I can nail down a line of approach. If
>you have any
>questions or concerns, please E-mail me.
>Thanks everyone!
>Bruce Bergman
>President, Fat City Network Services
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
Author: John Kanagaraj

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Received on Wed Aug 29 2001 - 12:28:50 CDT

Original text of this message