RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?

I stand by what I had said earlier, I think you've done a great job Mark. There is nothing wrong with being good at many things and not yet an expert at something, especially at the age of 22. I think I am more of a jack of all trades and not yet an expert on anything. When I started here about three years ago I thought I knew stuff about computers, but it turns out I really didn't know anything. Now I build my own PC's and PC's for my friends and family. It doesn't bother me to have all of this knowledge floating around. You know, my father has been Sr VP of several company's and held other executive postitions and one of the main reasongs that he is looked upon in his industry so well is because he started from the bottom and worked his way to the top. When he comes up with an engineering idea it usually isn't questioned because he could implement it himself if he wanted too. Oops, starting to ramble, anyway, keep up the good work!! KK

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 6:21 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence there Christopher! :)

I will start off by saying - I am *not* a DBA, though I am fully aware of all that the job entails what with selling performance, tuning and management tools to you guys on a daily basis. I am *trained* to do the job - and have done a hell of a lot of reading and testing and playing.. The one thing I will say is that you guys - the DBAs - are for the most part not very impressed by our type of company when the sales critter that calls you (me) does not know what they are talking to you about.

With this in mind I have made it my job to learn as much as I can - both in and out of work hours - to be just as much up to speed on the databases we deal with as you - the DBAs. I could competently look after an Oracle or SQLServer database if thrown in the deep end (though I may not be a performance expert like Kirti or Gaja) or have written a book on any subject that I have chosen to learn - or in fact published my IQ to people around the world :)

The same goes with HTML & JAVA programming - I'm no "expert" but can certainly hold my own! By the way I finally published our new site over the weekend www.cool-tools.co.uk, and included your very own site in our links section, the site was FULLY done by myself.

I don't claim to be an expert - and I don't think that I did in my original posting - but then I don't usually run to an "expert" for him to fix a problem that I'm having (though I have on the odd occasion turned to the list for advice:) ) I usually just sink my teeth in to a manual or online, test, play and learn on my own two feet.

Being 22 I think I have pretty a good head start - and hey If you didn't know what I did @ 22, and your only 26 I should be a GURU by the time I reach your age? Jealous? :)

Cheers

Mark

-----Original Message-----
Spence
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 05:57
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing.

Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place.

There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades.

I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be.

With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing.

I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life.

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax: (707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall.

Ruth
----- Original Message -----
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM

> WOW, now I feel like slacker:)
> KK
> ----- Original Message -----
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM
>
>
> > Cheers Lee!
> >
> > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned
> > down
> for
> > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW
> > (only

6
> > years above the legal limit!).
> >
> > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming
> > under
> my
> > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently
> > moving in
> to
> > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing..
> >
> > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX..
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Lee - lerobe
> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while
> evaluating
> > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how
> > young
> he
> > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i
launch
> > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after
> > dropping
> out
> > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me for
> > a
> couple
> > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for
> > about
> 7-8
> > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use
Ingres,
> > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and Informix(DBA).
> > Now purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every minute of it -
> > Honest.
> >
> > Big future Mark - best of luck !!
> >
> > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Ahhhhhh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was still
> drinking
> > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :)
> >
> > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software sales
> > on Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have a hell of
> > a head start working with computers due to my "old man" also being
> > in software/hardware sales since I can remember - he also started
> > out as a computer operator on an IBM 360 mainframe? I actually
> > started my working life as an anodiser of all things - an ageing
> > process for aluminium for those that don't know, where by you treat
> > the aluminium in vats of
> sulphuric
> > acid, and caustic soda all heated with electricity running through..
> > Did
> it
> > manually too with big rubber gloves, boots and apron! I much prefer
> tapping
> > my keyboard I can tell ya!
> >
> > Roll on the new wave of technology! VR here we come! And a great big
hand
> to
> > the "oldies" for making the computer industry what it is now!
> >
> > Mark (One from the young camp)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Kanagaraj
> > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:14
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > I want to echo your sentiment. Now that I am approaching 40 and
> > feeling dinosaurish, it is nice to know that a large number of
> > dinosaurs (or 'OraSaurus' as Don puts it) still exist.
> >
> > Btw, I keep hearing of Age discrimination in the IT industry.
> > Reading through these notes, is it fair to say that this is less
> > true among

DBAs?
> >
> > As far me, started out in 79 in college with IBM 1620/Fortran and
> > punched-card Input/Output trays (used to be able to read Hollerith
> > code
> once
> > upon a time!). Progressed to Cobol in my first job in 84 and later
> > to XENIX/UNIX, and teaching the User *never* to use 'ior i' to
> > 'startup'

the
> V5
> > database...
> >
> > John Kanagaraj
> > Oracle Applications DBA
> > DB Soft Inc
> > Work : (408) 970 7002
> >
> > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> > http://www.klove.com
> >
> > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely
> > mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers **
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com]
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:35 PM
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >Subject: computer history stories
> > >
> > >
> > >I just want to thank everyone whose stories indicate that they are
> > >at least middle-aged--for a while (especially at my last job where
> > >the average age
> > >was about 25), I'd been feeling as though I was the last
> > >over-40 tech-head
> > >left on the East Coast.
> > >
> > >Now, as long as I'm posting, my "how-I-got-started" story:
> > >
> > >I majored in liberal arts and worked as a real-estate property
> > >manager for about 5 years. Encouraged by programmer friends, I
> > >took some classes, in
> > >Fortran, Intro. to Computer Logic, and DG MV/8000 assembly
> > >language. My
> > >first job, in 1981, was as an assembly language programmer,
> > >but not for the
> > >MV/8000; rather, writing firmware for the Intel 8085. I
> > >couldn't believe
> > >how primitive it seemed after programming for the then-state-of-the-art
> > >MV/8000. The experience, though, of working from hardware
> > >schematics and
> > >Intel data books was invaluable. You really know how a
> > >computer works when
> > >you've learned about asserting ALE (address latch enable) and
> > >strobing the
> > >address bus!
> > >
> > >Paul Baumgartel
> > >MortgageSight Holdings, LLC
> > >pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com
> > >
> > >--
> > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > >--
> > >Author: Paul Baumgartel
> > > INET: pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com
> > >
> > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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