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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
oops -- capability to learn
>From: Christopher Spence <cspence_at_FuelSpot.com>
>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
>Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800
>
>IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn.
>
>IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are.
>
>Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn.
>
>"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
>when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."
>
>Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
>Oracle DBA
>Phone: (978) 322-5744
>Fax: (707) 885-2275
>
>Fuelspot
>73 Princeton Street
>North, Chelmsford 01863
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn?
>
>some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time
>to
>
>process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that
>what they are saying is accurate before they speak.
>
>
> >From: Christopher Spence <cspence_at_FuelSpot.com>
> >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
> >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800
> >
> >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things.
> >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it
> >and do it well is another thing.
> >
> >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the
> >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into
> >something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the
> >first place.
> >
> >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t
> >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not
> >the jack of all trades.
> >
> >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I
> >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years
> >ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it.
> >I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the
> >luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I
> >generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know
> >it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know
> >more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad
> >generalization was not how I wanted to be.
> >
> >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I
> >know
> >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was
> >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server
> >DBA,
> >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very
> >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames.
> >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you
>are
> >and what ya doing.
> >
> >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked
> >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I
> >am the best street sweeper there ever was."
> >After
> >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek
> >the same motivation in my life.
> >
> >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that
> >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their
> >shoes."
> >
> >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
> >Oracle DBA
> >Phone: (978) 322-5744
> >Fax: (707) 885-2275
> >
> >Fuelspot
> >73 Princeton Street
> >North, Chelmsford 01863
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it.
> >Maybe we're not slackers afterall.
> >
> >Ruth
> >----- Original Message -----
> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM
> >
> >
> > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:)
> > > KK
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > > Cheers Lee!
> > > >
> > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually
> > > > turned down
> > > for
> > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW
> > > > (only
> >6
> > > > years above the legal limit!).
> > > >
> > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming
> > > > under
> > > my
> > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently
> > > > moving in
> > > to
> > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a
> > > > playing..
> > > >
> > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX..
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > Lee - lerobe
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while
> > > evaluating
> > > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how
> > > > young
> > > he
> > > > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle
> > > > 9i
> >launch
> > > > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after
> > > > dropping
> > > out
> > > > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me
> > > > for a
> > > couple
> > > > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for
> > > > about
> > > 7-8
> > > > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use
> >Ingres,
> > > > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and
> > > > Informix(DBA). Now purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every
> > > > minute of it - Honest.
> > > >
> > > > Big future Mark - best of luck !!
> > > >
> > > > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ahhhhhh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was still
> > > drinking
> > > > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :)
> > > >
> > > > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software
> > > > sales on Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have a
> > > > hell of a head start working with computers due to my "old man"
> > > > also being in software/hardware sales since I can remember - he
> > > > also started out as a computer operator on an IBM 360 mainframe? I
> > > > actually started my working life as an anodiser of all things - an
> > > > ageing process for aluminium for those that don't know, where by
> > > > you treat the aluminium in vats of
> > > sulphuric
> > > > acid, and caustic soda all heated with electricity running
> > > > through.. Did
> > > it
> > > > manually too with big rubber gloves, boots and apron! I much
> > > > prefer
> > > tapping
> > > > my keyboard I can tell ya!
> > > >
> > > > Roll on the new wave of technology! VR here we come! And a great
> > > > big
> >hand
> > > to
> > > > the "oldies" for making the computer industry what it is now!
> > > >
> > > > Mark (One from the young camp)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > Kanagaraj
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:14
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Paul,
> > > >
> > > > I want to echo your sentiment. Now that I am approaching 40 and
> > > > feeling dinosaurish, it is nice to know that a large number of
> > > > dinosaurs (or 'OraSaurus' as Don puts it) still exist.
> > > >
> > > > Btw, I keep hearing of Age discrimination in the IT industry.
> > > > Reading through these notes, is it fair to say that this is less
> > > > true among
> >DBAs?
> > > >
> > > > As far me, started out in 79 in college with IBM 1620/Fortran and
> > > > punched-card Input/Output trays (used to be able to read Hollerith
> > > > code
> > > once
> > > > upon a time!). Progressed to Cobol in my first job in 84 and later
> > > > to XENIX/UNIX, and teaching the User *never* to use 'ior i' to
> > > > 'startup'
> >the
> > > V5
> > > > database...
> > > >
> > > > John Kanagaraj
> > > > Oracle Applications DBA
> > > > DB Soft Inc
> > > > Work : (408) 970 7002
> > > >
> > > > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> > > > http://www.klove.com
> > > >
> > > > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely
> > > > mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers **
> > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com]
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:35 PM
> > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >Subject: computer history stories
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I just want to thank everyone whose stories indicate that they
> > > > >are at least middle-aged--for a while (especially at my last job
> > > > >where the average age was about 25), I'd been feeling as though I
> > > > >was the last over-40 tech-head
> > > > >left on the East Coast.
> > > > >
> > > > >Now, as long as I'm posting, my "how-I-got-started" story:
> > > > >
> > > > >I majored in liberal arts and worked as a real-estate property
> > > > >manager for about 5 years. Encouraged by programmer friends, I
> > > > >took some classes, in Fortran, Intro. to Computer Logic, and DG
> > > > >MV/8000 assembly language. My
> > > > >first job, in 1981, was as an assembly language programmer,
> > > > >but not for the
> > > > >MV/8000; rather, writing firmware for the Intel 8085. I
> > > > >couldn't believe
> > > > >how primitive it seemed after programming for the
> >then-state-of-the-art
> > > > >MV/8000. The experience, though, of working from hardware
> > > > >schematics and Intel data books was invaluable. You really know
> > > > >how a computer works when
> > > > >you've learned about asserting ALE (address latch enable) and
> > > > >strobing the
> > > > >address bus!
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul Baumgartel
> > > > >MortgageSight Holdings, LLC pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > >--
> > > > >Author: Paul Baumgartel
> > > > > INET: pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com
> > > > >
> > > > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> >Lists
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> > > > --
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> > > > --
> > > > Author: John Kanagaraj
> > > > INET: john.kanagaraj_at_hds.com
> > > >
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> > > > Author: Mark Leith
> > > > INET: mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk
> > > >
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> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> > > > INET: lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> > > > Author: Mark Leith
> > > > INET: mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk
> > > >
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> > > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn
> > > INET: kevin_at_dulcian.com
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> >
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Ruth Gramolini
> > INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us
> >
> >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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> >command for other information (like subscribing).
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Christopher Spence
> > INET: cspence_at_FuelSpot.com
> >
> >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Rachel Carmichael
> INET: carmichr_at_hotmail.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the
>message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of
>mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP
>command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Christopher Spence
> INET: cspence_at_FuelSpot.com
>
>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: carmichr_at_hotmail.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Mon Aug 06 2001 - 13:23:00 CDT
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