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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: Griping about auditing (not the Oracle Kind)
The way I read it was that they aren't letting it fail because they want to make a point. They are letting it fail because they were told they could not fix it. Then when it did fail, they made sure it was real inconvenient for those who said "no you cannot fix it before it breaks".
If it is the case that they were letting it fail to make a point, then yes, that is not acceptable. That is failing to do the job. However, if they watch it fail because they were *told to by the boss* (after pointing out the future failure in advance), then you have to do what the boss says. You just make sure s/he feels it when the decision goes bad.
It is easy for me to say I would risk my job and not obey the bosses that tell me they can do my job better. Especially for a slap in the face like this. Hey, I'll just fill the paperwork and let you reject my suggestion and I'll do it anyway. You know it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. The base won't go down. The users will be happy. All will be well. Until the boss finds out that I am ignoring his authority. Especially when it is pointed out to him/her by someone else (possibly on a followup audit). Then I am in trouble. Big trouble. Then maybe being the rebel wasn't so good. I disobeyed the boss who was responding to auditors and that is the definition of insubordination. It doesn't matter that as a point of database operations and administration I was right. I disobeyed the pointy haired ones. Now I will pay.
Auditors have a "terror" streak in their name. The mere mention of "the auditors" sets off those ominous tones in the minds of bosses. It sends them into panic since the very essence of their job (management) is being exposed for the whole world to see. Get a bad mark and they want that mark removed. Fast. Because of that, most bosses refuse to argue with the auditors findings and fight for what is correct. That's where stupid policies like having a data entry clerk verify that the DBA added a new file correctly. The same data entry clerk that couldn't log on when because the login screen changed colors and s/he got confused. Or having the same VP who opened the I*LOVE*YOU* virus (because he really thinks people out there love him) for the 16th time, approve or disapprove your database maintenence plans. In this case, I think my recommendation to Jay (I think he started this thread) would be to dust of the ol' resume and find a place where you're at least looked on with awe if not outright wors hipped for your power and knowledge...
--Chris
Chris.Bowes_at_Kosa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:carmichr_at_hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 4:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Griping about auditing (not the Oracle Kind)
I just always figure that if I am doing my job properly, they will be wondering why they pay me what they do (too little, but more than they think they should, considering "nothing ever goes wrong")
deliberately letting something fail so as to point out a problem is definitely NOT the way to get things done.
>From: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com
>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Subject: RE: Griping about auditing (not the Oracle Kind)
>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:00:58 -0800
>
>
>
>Kimberly,
>
>We're on the same wavelength, as I was thinking the same thing.
>
>Procrastinating on something that you know needs to be done
>is not an ethical way of dealing with this, IMO.
>
>Jared
>
>
>
>
> Kimberly Smith
> <kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fu To: Multiple
>recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> jitsu.com> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: RE: Griping
>about auditing (not the Oracle Kind)
> root_at_fatcity.com
>
>
> 06/25/01 10:15 AM
> Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I say that if you wait until you database has an error you really
>aren't proving much except that you are not proactive in your job.
>Which, in my book, makes you not a very good DBA. Dealing with a
>dumb process is one thing (we have our fair share on this account)
>but I take to much pride in my work to let things fail because I
>need to fill in a piece of paper.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:43 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Wahey !!! The answer I was going to provide. We started calling the manager
>up quite frequently at home to authorise changes - he eventually saw sense.
>Not quite as bad as 2am in the morning but inconvenient enough for him to
>put a stop to it.
>
>Best of Luck.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: 25 June 2001 17:07
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Jay;
> I have had to go thru the same thing a couple times on a previous job
>with
>Auditors. Every time those kind of restrictions were placed on us it
>brought things to a snails pace or, in some conditions, a complete halt.
>Sooner or later they realized that it was unreasonable and lifted them.
>But
>it was a pain until they did it.
>
>It took them a while to realize that we HAD to work the way we did in order
>to keep things running smoothly.
>
>I personally think that you should wait with resizing any of your
>production
>data files until you get oracle errors saying that things can not extend.
>At that time, call up the Sr. VP at 2 am in the morning and tell him that
>you have a crisis but you can not proceed until you get his permission
>because of the restrictions placed on you by the Auditors. Repeat this
>process as many times as neccessary for them to lift the restrictions.
>
>Kevin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:32 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>We've been through an internal audit and I was just wondering if anyone
>else
>has to deal with the rather ludicrous requirements I now have. In order to
>add or resize a datafile I now need to fill out a form and get Senior VP
>approval and the alert logs must be reviewed every day by a non-DBA in
>order
>to be certain that I didn't make any database changes without such
>approval.
>The auditors were horrified to discover that not only did I do such things
>whenever I thought them necessary but that we didn't have a non-DBA review
>everything I did after an Oracle upgrade to ensure I didn't install any
>other software.
>Fortunately I managed to convince them that yes, I really did need a Unix
>login (they were skeptical).
>
>So, any similar horror stories?
>
>Jay Miller
>Sr. Oracle DBA
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Miller, Jay
> INET: JayMiller_at_TDWaterhouse.com
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-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: carmichr_at_hotmail.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Mon Jun 25 2001 - 15:39:44 CDT
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