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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> Re: Fwd: Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE
Well, I'm an admitted purist too.
The dev team has done the datawarehouse first phase by themselves ignoring my recommandations. Hey who am i to tell how do things to a team 100% composed of one of the biggest consulting firm in the world (cgey) with no Oracle knowledge and very little DW knowledge.
Each time I was trying to bring on my point of view they were telling me that it was too theoritical.
Now we have a nice hybrid data model and before Oracle do a star join on their tables it will snow cows.
On the good side, damagement has read my audit and from now on we'll do things the good way. (It will be nice to change those dimension tables 5 fields primary key...)
Denormalisation is a solution to identified problems not a designing/programming style.
> ATTACHMENT part TEXT message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:27:50 -0400
>
> I'm an admitted purist...I look at denormalized and
> unnormalized as being the same. I've been on
> projects that wanted to introduce denormalization
> because the developers expected a performance issue.
> After I look at it and disagree, then the war
> begins. On the other hand, on my latest project, I
> agreed with a suggested denormalization after I
> heard all the facts. I like your point about
> calling it structured denormalization. Makes sense
> to me.
>
> As far as people making business decisions, why do
> they need to know about denormalization? That's an
> implementation issue. If they hired good IT people,
> then they're ok. If they didn't, they're screwed.
> Such is life in the big city. We need to get some
> successes under our belt so we can preach with
> confidence and having refenceable clients
> available.
>
> >>> "Eric D. Pierce" <PierceED_at_csus.edu> 04/23/01
> 02:06PM >>>
> And I'd be curious to know why you are curious!
>
> What I have gathered so far from the discussion is
> that normalization
> zealotry, probably similar to other purist
> perspectives in life,
> doesn't get any particularly huge respect in the
> "real world".
>
> In other words, people that make business decisions
> have never heard
> of any "conventional wisdom" that violating
> normalized db designs will
> automatically wreck their organization. Like many
> other things, their
> IT infrastructure will inefficiently plod along, and
> suffer the burden
> of crappy models (grumbling dbas and all....) in
> spite of a lack of
> conformance to theoretical orthodoxy.
>
> I would guess that in some cases, an organization's
> IT folks might be
> able to present a coherent business case for zealous
> normalization,
> but doing so is probably a rare skill, and perhaps
> even more rarely
> appreciated by the organization.
>
> Unfortunately the situation for "structured
> denormalization" is
> probably about the same, except that it may not have
> quite the
> "political" baggage, and so can just be used as a
> technical method.
>
> ep
>
> ps, don't forget that the word "structured" needs to
> be in front
> of "denormalized". on the other hand, "unnormalized"
> (non-normal)
> by definition can't be "structured". "unnormalized"
> implies a
> *lack* of methodology, whereas "structured
> denormalization" implies
> method/rules/order/metrics/analysis/etc.
>
> pss, do you remember reading the Oracle Magazine
> article on
> denormalization by Ulka Rogers back in the Oracle v6
> (or maybe
> early v7) days?
>
> On 23 Apr 2001, at 10:15, Tim Sawmiller wrote:
>
> Date sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:15:29 -0800
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> ORACLE
>
> > I'd be curious to see your definitions of
> "un-normalized" and "de-normalized"...
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> PierceED_at_csus.edu 04/23/01 01:55PM >>>
> >
> > On 20 Apr 2001, at 19:15, Jared Still wrote:
> >
> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:15:20 -0800
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Well, why would you *not* want to denormalize
> during design? It seems
> > > > to me that (theoretically) ***if*** you are
> doing "structured"
> > > > denormalization correctly, that is exactly
> when you would want to do
> > > > it, no?
> > >
> > > Unless you detect a performance problem, why
> denormalize at all?
> > >
> > > We always have folks that want to denormalize
> because they *think*
> > > there will be a performance problem. This
> usually occurs because
> > > they think that joining 3 or 4 tables will be
> too slow.
> >
> >
> > I guess I've been under the impression that a good
> design
> > process would be done with proper methods,
> including having
> > (legitimately tested) performance metrics.
> >
> > Are you saying that is an overly idealistic
> approach for most
> > "real world" situations? :)
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > ... Only one table was highly denormalized, and
> > > that was nobody could figure out a reasonable
> way to normalize it. Not sure
> > > if I could yet. :)
> >
> > Well, as i said before, my understanding is that
> it was
> > "unnormalized", which is different from
> "denormalized".
>
> ...
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Tim Sawmiller
> INET: sawmillert_at_state.mi.us
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?paquette=20stephane?= INET: stephane_paquette_at_yahoo.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Tue Apr 24 2001 - 02:19:30 CDT
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