RE: microsoft sql vs. oracle

From: Rivera, Claudia <crivera_at_utep.edu>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:39:52 -0700
Message-Id: <10733.125930@fatcity.com>

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        thanks to everyone for your responses : )

-----Original Message-----
From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:MohanR_at_STARS-SMI.com] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:57 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: microsoft sql vs. oracle

"two cents"

...thanks for your post....and I, in turn, apologize if I took on a tone ( yikes! ) in my post that prompted your kind apology.

Cheers,

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: mRT Bonner [ mailto:ravendarke2000_at_yahoo.com <mailto:ravendarke2000_at_yahoo.com> ]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 1:37 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: microsoft sql vs. oracle

Before I respond... what does "dwy ceinoig" mean?

I guess it really just comes down to preference, and what you happen to know. I hated SS 6x, as I was working with an application that required some... odd DB support. In order to properly support the application... well, you obviously read my last post. I'm not saying that MS has put out a bad product, far from it, I just had a very hard time finding those dials and knobs. That being said, I've never worked with 2000, and my experience with 7 was mostly design, but even then, they still had a 'hand-off' kind of approach.

I stand by my earlier statements, tho... I prefer to have a higher level of control. I still use an SLR camera, because Auto-focus annoys me.... :)

Claudia, I'm sorry, I forgot to add some more specific stuff... MS SQL Server will store images. Both Oracle and SQL Server can store enormous amounts of info. If you go out to http://terraserver.microsoft.com <http://terraserver.microsoft.com> they have a database, something on the order of two or three terrabytes, that stores satellite images and maps. It was built when 7.0 was released to show off the new engine, and its storage capabilities...

I apologize if I sounded closed minded, I was merely pointing to some of my experience with the dbs.

"Mohan, Ross" <MohanR_at_stars-smi.com> wrote:
> I have heard from a very bright MS
> field engineer that a surface-level
> understanding of SS2K is indeed like
> this, but, when I asked him if there
> were "dials and knobs" to tweak the
> database, he assured me there were
> tons of them, but most were hidden
> from the, er, "casual observer".
>
> This is good for two reasons.
> One is that the casual observer should
> keep his freakin' fingers out of the db engine.
> Another is that it *is* self-tuning,in some areas
> to an extent that oracle isn't quite yet, and
> so why do you want "the right hand" turning the
> dials while "the left hand" is, too?
>
> In any case, punchline: Don't underestimate
> something
> until you know it well. I know just enough about
> ss2k
> ( very little ) to approach it with respect. Odd
> thing
> is, once we know something (or indeed someONE! )
> well,
> we are more likely to respect its unique set of
> abilities.
>
> my "dwy ceinoig"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 10:56 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I think the single biggest difference (of many)
> between MSSQL Server and Oracle is the level of
> control you have over what the database is doing. MS
> continues update SQL Server with one thought in
> mind,
> 'Get rid of the DBA'. That's their pitch, in a lot
> of
> cases. DBA's are expensive. MS SQL Server is written
> so the coders can handle the database. And that's
> fine, if that's what you are looking for. If you
> need
> it to do something that MS hasn't forseen, however,
> you kind of have to go around your head to get to
> your
> rear.
>
> Martin Bonner
> Oracle DBA
> Ex-MS SQL Server DBA
>
> --- bunyamin karadeniz <bunyamink_at_havelsan.com.tr>
> wrote:
> > I do not agree with you Abdul
> > Because , Yes You said that MS Sql server only
> > works on MS Platforms .That
> > is true .
> > But do not forget that ORACLE has platform
> > problems too.
> > For ex. you will publish your application
> > developed in oracle forms in
> > internet , DB Server + OAS + Forms Server( if
> there
> > are version problems in
> > forms and OAS ) You have to set these up. You
> have
> > to configure lots of
> > thing . That is a trouble . But after you setup
> sql
> > server and iis . You can
> > write applications in asp,asp+,jscript....... and
> > embed into iis. No such
> > complicated configurings.
> > **********************************************
> > Bunyamin K. Karadeniz
> > Information Technologies Dept.
> > Database Group Tel :90-312-2873565/1681
> > HAVELSAN Ankara / TURKEY
> > **********************************************
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 1:00 PM
> >
> >
> > > Claudia,
> > >
> > > Oracle is in Database business since 1976 (if I
> am
> > not wrong) when
> > Microsoft
> > > was not born. With Oracle you have openness to
> all
> > popular (most stable to
> > > less stable and shareware) operating systems.
> > Where as with SQL you are
> > > limiting yourself to MS.
> > >
> > > Oracle has its own line of products closely
> > integrated to each other
> > > Designer / Forms / Reports / JDeveloper/
> Database
> > / Application Server / .
> > > Etc. MS does not have such line of product.
> > >
> > > To my understanding if you use designer, it will
> > generate the complete web
> > > enabled application. If you use Application
> Server
> > your application is up
> > on
> > > the Internet or Intranet.
> > >
> > > In short Oracle has tools that help you design
> > business application in
> > > minimum possible time for any platform and
> > configurations.
> > >
> > > HTH!
> > > Aleem
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 3:11 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: microsoft sql vs. oracle
> > >
> > > I know this may be a very obvious question, but
> I
> > need to know what would
> > > you use oracle vs. miscrosoft sql?
> > >
> > > Is microsoft sql capable of storing images?
> > > What is the maximum storage for oracle vs.
> > microsoft?
> > > etc...
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > --------------Claudia Rivera-----------------
> > > DMC, Tech. Media Coordinator
> > > crivera_at_utep.edu
> > > http://dmc.utep.edu <http://dmc.utep.edu>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com <http://www.orafaq.com>
> > > --
> > > Author: Rivera, Claudia
> > > INET: crivera_at_utep.edu
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051
> > FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California -- Public Internet
> > access / Mailing Lists
> > >
> >
>

> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
> an
> > E-Mail message
> > > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of
> > 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing:
> UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L
> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> > removed from). You may
> > > also send the HELP command for other information
> > (like subscribing).
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com <http://www.orafaq.com>
> > > --
> > > Author: Abdul Aleem
> > > INET: abchaudhary-ho_at_beaconhouse.edu.pk
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051
> > FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California -- Public Internet
> > access / Mailing Lists
> > >
> >
>

> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
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> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
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>
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
<http://www.orafaq.com>  
-- 
Author: mRT Bonner 
  INET: ravendarke2000_at_yahoo.com 

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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=187053617-06012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; thanks to 
everyone for your responses : )</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=187053617-06012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mohan, Ross 
  [mailto:MohanR_at_STARS-SMI.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 05, 2001 11:57 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
  microsoft sql vs. oracle<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <P><FONT size=2>"two cents"</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>...thanks for your post....and I, in turn, apologize</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>if I took on a tone ( yikes! ) in my post that 
  prompted</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>your kind apology. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Cheers, </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Ross</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: mRT 
  Bonner [<A 
  href="mailto:ravendarke2000_at_yahoo.com">mailto:ravendarke2000_at_yahoo.com</A>]</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 1:37 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>Subject: RE: microsoft sql vs. oracle</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>Before I respond... what does "dwy ceinoig" mean?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>I guess it really just comes down to preference, and</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>what you happen to know. I hated SS 6x, as I was</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>working with an application that required some... odd</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>DB support. In order to properly support the</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>application... well, you obviously read my last post.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>I'm not saying that MS has put out a bad product, far</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>from it, I just had a very hard time finding those</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>dials and knobs. That being said, I've never worked</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>with 2000, and my experience with 7 was mostly design,</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>but even then, they still had a 'hand-off' kind of</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>approach. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>I stand by my earlier statements, tho... I prefer to</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>have a higher level of control. I still use an SLR</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>camera, because Auto-focus annoys me....&nbsp; :)</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Claudia, I'm sorry, I forgot to add some more specific</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>stuff... MS SQL Server will store images. Both Oracle</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>and SQL Server can store enormous amounts of info. If</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>you go out to <A href="http://terraserver.microsoft.com" 
  target=_blank>http://terraserver.microsoft.com</A> they</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>have a database, something on the order of two or</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>three terrabytes, that stores satellite images and</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>maps. It was built when 7.0 was released to show off</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>the new engine, and its storage capabilities...</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>I apologize if I sounded closed minded, I was merely</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>pointing to some of my experience with the dbs.</FONT> 
  </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>--- "Mohan, Ross" &lt;MohanR_at_stars-smi.com&gt; wrote:</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; I have heard from a very bright MS</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; field engineer that a surface-level</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  understanding of SS2K is indeed like </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; this, but, 
  when I asked him if there </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; were "dials and knobs" 
  to tweak the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; database, he assured me there 
  were</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; tons of them, but most were hidden</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; from the, er, "casual observer".</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; This is good for two reasons. 
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; One is that the casual observer should</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; keep his freakin' fingers out of the db engine.</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Another is that it *is* self-tuning,in some areas</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; to an extent that oracle isn't quite yet, and</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; so why do you want "the right hand" turning the</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; dials while "the left hand" is, too?</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; In any case, punchline: Don't 
  underestimate</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; something</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; until you know it well. I know just enough about</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; ss2k</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; ( very little ) to approach it 
  with respect. Odd</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; thing</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; is, once we know something (or indeed someONE! )</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; well, </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; we are more likely to respect 
  its unique set of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; abilities. </FONT><BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; my "dwy ceinoig"</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 10:56 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; I think 
  the single biggest difference (of many)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; between 
  MSSQL Server and Oracle is the level of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; control 
  you have over what the database is doing. MS</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  continues update SQL Server with one thought in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  mind,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 'Get rid of the DBA'. That's their pitch, 
  in a lot</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; cases. 
  DBA's are expensive. MS SQL Server is written</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; so 
  the coders can handle the database. And that's</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  fine, if that's what you are looking for. If you</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  need</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; it to do something that MS hasn't forseen, 
  however,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; you kind of have to go around your head 
  to get to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; your</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  rear.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Martin 
  Bonner</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Oracle DBA</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  Ex-MS SQL Server DBA</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  --- bunyamin karadeniz &lt;bunyamink_at_havelsan.com.tr&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; I do not agree with you 
  Abdul</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Because , Yes You said that MS 
  Sql server only</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; works on MS Platforms 
  .That</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; is true .</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; But do not forget that ORACLE has platform</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; problems too.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  For ex. you will publish your application</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  developed in oracle forms&nbsp; in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; internet 
  ,&nbsp; DB Server + OAS + Forms Server( if</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  there</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; are version problems in</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; forms and OAS )&nbsp; You have to set these up. 
  You</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; to 
  configure lots of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; thing . That is a trouble 
  . But after you setup</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; sql</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; server and iis . You can</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  write applications in asp,asp+,jscript....... and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; embed into iis. No such</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; complicated 
  configurings.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  **********************************************</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; Bunyamin K. Karadeniz</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; Information 
  Technologies Dept.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; Database Group Tel 
  :90-312-2873565/1681</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; HAVELSAN Ankara / 
  TURKEY</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  **********************************************</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; ----- Original Message -----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; To: 
  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  &lt;ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, 
  January 05, 2001 1:00 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT><BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Claudia,</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Oracle 
  is in Database business since 1976 (if I</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  am</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; not wrong) when</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; Microsoft</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; was not 
  born. With Oracle you have openness to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; all</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; popular (most stable to</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; less stable and shareware) operating systems.</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; Where as with SQL you are</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; limiting yourself to MS.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Oracle has its own line of 
  products closely</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; integrated to each 
  other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Designer / Forms / Reports / 
  JDeveloper/</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Database</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; / Application Server / .</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Etc. MS 
  does not have such line of product.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; To my understanding if you use 
  designer, it will</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; generate the complete 
  web</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; enabled application. If you use 
  Application</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Server</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; your application is up</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; on</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; the Internet or Intranet.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; In short Oracle 
  has tools that help you design</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; business 
  application in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; minimum possible time 
  for any platform and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; configurations.</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
  HTH!</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Aleem</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  &gt; Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 3:11 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  &gt; To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt; Subject: microsoft sql vs. oracle</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; I know this may be a very obvious 
  question, but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; I</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  need to know what would</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; you use oracle 
  vs. miscrosoft sql?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Is microsoft sql capable of storing images?</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; What is the maximum storage for oracle 
  vs.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; microsoft?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt; etc...</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks in 
  advance.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt; --------------Claudia Rivera-----------------</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; DMC, Tech. Media Coordinator</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; crivera_at_utep.edu</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
  http://dmc.utep.edu</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; <A 
  href="http://www.orafaq.com" target=_blank>http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
  Author: Rivera, Claudia</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  INET: crivera_at_utep.edu</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fat City Network Services&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- (858) 
  538-5051 </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; San Diego, 
  California&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Public Internet</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, 
  send</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; E-Mail 
  message</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note 
  EXACT spelling of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 'ListGuru') and in</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; the message BODY, include a line 
  containing:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; UNSUB</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; (or the name of mailing 
  list you want to be</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; removed from).&nbsp; You 
  may</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; also send the HELP command for 
  other information</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; (like subscribing).</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; <A 
  href="http://www.orafaq.com" target=_blank>http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
  Author: Abdul Aleem</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; INET: 
  abchaudhary-ho_at_beaconhouse.edu.pk</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fat City Network 
  Services&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- (858) 538-5051 </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 
  FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; San Diego, 
  California&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Public Internet</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, 
  send</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; E-Mail 
  message</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note 
  EXACT spelling of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; 'ListGuru') and in</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; the message BODY, include a line 
  containing:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; UNSUB</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  &gt; ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; (or the name of mailing 
  list you want to be</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; removed from).&nbsp; You 
  may</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; also send the HELP command for 
  other information</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>=== 
  message truncated ===</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>__________________________________________________</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Do You Yahoo!?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Yahoo! Photos - Share 
  your holiday photos online!</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2><A 
  href="http://photos.yahoo.com/" 
  target=_blank>http://photos.yahoo.com/</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>-- 
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A 
  href="http://www.orafaq.com" target=_blank>http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>-- </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Author: mRT Bonner</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&nbsp; INET: ravendarke2000_at_yahoo.com</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Fat City Network Services&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- (858) 
  538-5051&nbsp; FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>San Diego, 
  California&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Public Internet access 
  / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail

Received on Sat Jan 06 2001 - 11:39:52 CST