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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: general doubt - we need more forgiveness in this world.
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Miss Manners say that forgiveness is something granted after an apology is offered.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Orr [mailto:sorr_at_arzoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:07 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: general doubt - we need more forgiveness in this world.
The flaw with email communication is one's tendency to read in attitudes that just weren't intended. You can't see the expression on their face and you can't read their minds. I'm on Rachel's side and always will be because I've had the pleasure of meeting her and have found her to be a wonderfully nice and ingratiating personality. But no matter how nice someone is we all have our moments and rough edges.
It's easier to be offended than to just forgive but life is a lot more fun if we can learn to forgive and get on with it. Quoting Don Henley, "It's time to get down to the heart of the matter and I think it's about forgiveness, even if you don't love me anymore."
Graceful peace to you all and I beg your forgiveness for any past, present,
and future indiscretions,
Steve Orr
And I'm sorry if I sound "preachy" too. :-)
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:27 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I do not object to mentioning of the delete key but I do not like and will
not tolerate the tone. I do not see Rachel as a such moral authority figure
for me to accept such tone (Maybe she is but I barely know her - I saw her
one time on IOUG conference and saw couple of her books). If instead of "I
remind you, the delete key is located on your keyboard and labelled as such"
she said something like "If you don't like the message use the delete key" I
wouldn't even reply.
Alex Hillman
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 12:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I must say that I totally agree with Rachel. As a female, I found that the
email Alex send out to be very offensive. And I definitely don't appreciate
such comments on the list.
Every body entitled to speak whatever they want, subject to not physically
or emotionally harming the other person.
Like what Rachel said, DELETE keys are always there for you for one
purpose: to delete whatever you don't want to read!
Winnie
"Deshpande, Kirti" <kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com>@fatcity.com on 01/03/2001
07:50:50 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> cc:
Current Score:
Rachel : 14
Alex : 6
End of 1st Period !! This is getting very interesting at FatcityBowl...
Can we..can we just get along...
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: Winnie_Liu_at_infonet.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: sorr_at_arzoo.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0768C.903782F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: general doubt - we need more forgiveness in this world.</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Miss Manners say that forgiveness is something</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>granted after an apology is offered. </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Steve Orr [<A HREF="mailto:sorr_at_arzoo.com">mailto:sorr_at_arzoo.com</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:07 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: general doubt - we need more forgiveness in this world.</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>The flaw with email communication is one's tendency to read in attitudes</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>that just weren't intended. You can't see the expression on their face and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>you can't read their minds. I'm on Rachel's side and always will be because</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>I've had the pleasure of meeting her and have found her to be a wonderfully</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>nice and ingratiating personality. But no matter how nice someone is we all</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>have our moments and rough edges.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2>It's easier to be offended than to just forgive but life is a lot more fun</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>if we can learn to forgive and get on with it. Quoting Don Henley, "It's</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>time to get down to the heart of the matter and I think it's about</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>forgiveness, even if you don't love me anymore."</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Graceful peace to you all and I beg your forgiveness for any past, present,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>and future indiscretions,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Steve Orr</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2>And I'm sorry if I sound "preachy" too. :-)</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:27 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>I do not object to mentioning of the delete key but I do not like and will</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>not tolerate the tone. I do not see Rachel as a such moral authority figure</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>for me to accept such tone (Maybe she is but I barely know her - I saw her</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>one time on IOUG conference and saw couple of her books). If instead of "I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>remind you, the delete key is located on your keyboard and labelled as such"</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>she said something like "If you don't like the message use the delete key" I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>wouldn't even reply.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Alex Hillman</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 12:41 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>I must say that I totally agree with Rachel. As a female, I found that the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>email Alex send out to be very offensive. And I definitely don't appreciate</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>such comments on the list.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Every body entitled to speak whatever they want, subject to not physically</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>or emotionally harming the other person.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Like what Rachel said, DELETE keys are always there for you for one</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>purpose: to delete whatever you don't want to read!</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Winnie</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>"Deshpande, Kirti" <kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com>@fatcity.com on 01/03/2001</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>07:50:50 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Please respond to ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>cc:</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Current Score:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2> Rachel : 14</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2> Alex : 6</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>End of 1st Period !! This is getting very interesting at FatcityBowl...</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Can we..can we just get along...</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2> - Rodney King</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:carmichr_at_hotmail.com]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 8:51 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: RE: general doubt</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From www.dictionary.com:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> insinuation: Something insinuated, especially an artfully indirect, often</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> derogatory suggestion.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> insinuate: To introduce or insert (oneself) by subtle and artful means.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Based on those definitions, I didn't insinuate anything. I was neither</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> subtle nor indirect in calling you sexist.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> sexism: Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> social roles based on gender.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Telling me that I am not your mother or wife is promoting stereotyping,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> since those are gender-based roles.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I told you to use the delete key and not to insult me... no insinuation</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> there. You might consider checking a dictionary before you use words when</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> you are not sure of the definitions.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Consider yourself permanently blocked -- and a complaint about your</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> behavior</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> has been lodged with the list owner.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >From: Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Subject: RE: general doubt</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:30:32 -0800</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Maybe it is enough. What is your next insinuation? Sexist - it is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >hilarious.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >You should have better arguments than that. And also you can delete my</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >messages - if you use MS Outlook you can even have a rule to delete them</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >immediately.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Alex Hillman</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:46 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >Yes you are entitled to your view -- but when you add to the messages on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >topic then you add to the trash if you consider the topic itself to be</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >trash.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >As for not being your wife or mother -- no, thank goodness, I'm not in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> any</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >way or form related to you. And I find it insulting that you would say</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> that</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >to me, since you would NOT say "you are not my father" to any man on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>this</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >list. I find that a sexist remark and definitely "trashing" this list.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >As for being or not being a school teacher... whether or not I was is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >irrelevant... but I consider THAT a compliment (although I can infer</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>that</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >you don't think it is). School teachers educate... and I think that</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >eradicating ignorance is a noble task.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >From: Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Subject: RE: general doubt</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:10:42 -0800</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >I think that as anybody else I am entitled to my point of view and can</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >express it. This is definitely trashing and every day it becomes</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>worse.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >In</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >trashing I mean to diminish the value of this list. Also there were no</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >indications in the subject showing me that I should delete the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>message.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Also</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >I do not appreciate this "I remind you, the delete key is located on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> your</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >keyboard and labelled as such". You are not my mother or wife or</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>school</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >teacher (or maybe you are a school teacher - in former life?).</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Alex Hillman</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 2:26 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Alex,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >"trashing this list"? A bit harsh and definitely inaccurate.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >I remind you, the delete key is located on your keyboard and labelled</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >such. I suggest you use it instead of, to quote your own message,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> >"trashing</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >this list".</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > >Rachel</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Author: Deshpande, Kirti</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2> INET: kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Author:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2> INET: Winnie_Liu_at_infonet.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2>-- </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>-- </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Author: Steve Orr</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2> INET: sorr_at_arzoo.com</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message</FONT>Received on Thu Jan 04 2001 - 14:26:05 CST
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