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RE: FreeOCP

From: Rachel Carmichael <carmichr_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:44:03 -0000
Message-Id: <10702.123783@fatcity.com>


I'm not exaggerating......

yes these are things people should learn if they want to be a DBA... but not everything is covered in the OCP exams. And if the only way someone has learned Oracle is by taking the exams, then they have holes in their knowledge.... basic holes. And THAT scares me.

Rachel

>From: SHAIBAL TALUKDER <shaibal_talukder_at_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Subject: RE: FreeOCP
>Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:41:35 -0800
>
> Come on Rachel, this comment is a little overblown, I
>don't believe that some one who is a OCP DBA does not
>know how to shut down a database. These are things
>some one learns or should learn when they think about
>being a DBA. I am sure this topics are well covered in
>OCP exams. The fact is somebody likes to get certified
>and some people do not. Some body like institution and
>some do not. It is always a choice and everybody
>should respect either stand. Exceptions are on both
>the side.
>
>S.Talukder
>Sr.DBA
>Convergys Corporation
>Direct: (513) 748 5086
>Cell:(513) 229 7422
>
>
>Rachel Carmichael wrote: My point also was that you
>cannot generalize... nothing is ever black and white,
>there are always shades of gray.Yes there are DBAs
>with OCP who are fantastic. There are also DBAs with
>OCP who don't know a thing about a database. I get
>really scared when I see someone post a note "how do I
>shutdown the database" and their signature like has
>OCP in it.>From: "aaaa wwwwww" >Reply-To:
>ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>To: Multiple recipients of list
>ORACLE-L >Subject: RE: FreeOCP>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000
>19:25:24 -0800>>Dear Seniors>>Most of U felt bad it
>seems !>>When we are generalising U shouldn't bring
>case by case example>>Rao>-->>On Tue, 05 Dec 2000
>16:45:22> Rachel Carmichael wrote:> >Jeff,> >>
> >Forgive me for jumping in on your rant, but I didn't
>see the original> >message.> >> >All -> >> >I do love
>this quote from the original email:> >> >"In my humble
>opinion, any OCP DBA with experience is lot better
>than a >OCP> >DBA without experience or an experienced
>DBA without OCP."> >> >Really? Let's see.... I've been
>working as a DBA for 10+ years. I have >met> >DBAs
>with OCP and experience, DBAs with experience and no
>OCP and DBAs >with> >OCP and no experience.> >> >OCP
>does not in and of itself confer anything. You can
>pass the tests and> >never have used the products that
>the tests are about. I passed the 8.0 >to> >8i upgrade
>without ever having worked with RMAN, partitioned
>tables,> >Advanced Queuing, local and global
>partitioned indexes etc -- I hadn't> >worked with 8i
>at ALL. What I *did* have were some hours spent at>
> >conferences listening to people present on these
>topics, and a really >good> >ability to guess on
>standardized tests. I passed the 7.3 to 8.0 upgrade
> >the> >same way.> >> >So I have OCP and it still does
>not mean that I have experience in these> >things.> >>
> >Jeff is right -- what counts is what the person
>knows, not how he/she> >learned it. The best
>explanation I have ever heard was from Michael Abbey>
> >who said "OCP will get you in the door, but it's up
>to you and your> >abilities to keep you there".> >>
> >All OCP does is give upper management a warm and
>fuzzy (and often >incorrect)> >feeling about the
>abilities of the candidate.> >> >I don't look to see
>OCP on a resume before I interview someone. I don't>
> >reject the candidate if it is there, but it doesn't
>get you in the door >to> >see me. Your resume does.>
> >> >End of *MY* rant -- thanks Jeff :)> >> >Rachel> >>
> >>From: Jeffery Stevenson > >>Reply-To:
>ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> >>To: Multiple recipients of
>list ORACLE-L > >>Subject: RE: FreeOCP> >>Date: Tue,
>05 Dec 2000 06:41:28 -0800> >>> >> Every person should
>be judged on their own individual merits...a >veteran>
> >>DBA without OCP might have a box at home (or at
>work) where they take >the> >>latest and greatest and
>play with all the new features to figure out how>
> >>they work and see what kind of advantages they
>bring. You could have a >DBA> >>with lots of years of
>experience recorded and an OCP that has just been>
> >>soaking up money in a big contract for a consulting
>firm somewhere (and >not> >>really doing much), but
>they've had lots of time to take the tests >(until>
> >>they passed them all). There are too many variables
>in this world to >judge> >>a situation without getting
>all of the details...keeping that in mind, I> >>cannot
>agree with your viewpoint that an OCP DBA with
>experience is >going> >>to> >>be better than any other
>DBA--every situation is different. When>
> >>interviewing other DBAs, I might make initial
>judgements after reviewing> >>their resume, but
>(unless that resume is really, really bad) I won't
> >rule> >>them out until I've had a chance to talk with
>them. The DBA market is a> >>tight market, why rule
>out any potentially good employee/help based on>
> >>years> >>of experience or a piece of paper? None of
>that can tell me exactly >what> >>kind of heart, will,
>intelligence, common sense, personality, or >learning>
> >>ability a person has. OCP and years of experience
>have definite merits> >>when> >>trying to get HR's
>attention and jacking prices in contracts, but if the>
> >>person behind all that isn't really that good...>
> >>> >> Sorry about the rant, but I just couldn't sit
>back and listen to all> >>this> >>without saying
>something...> >>> >>Jeffery Stevenson> >>Chief
>Databeast Tamer> >>Medical Present Value, Inc.>
> >>Austin, TX> >>> >>-----Original Message----->
> >>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:51 PM> >>To:
>Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L> >>> >>> >>Hi
>friends!> >> There is a lots of talk about Paper DBAs
>on this message board. With >due> >>respect to all the
>veteran DBAs without OCP and new DBAs with OCP, I
> >would> >>like to make few comments from my own
>personal experience (spanning 9> >>years+> >>in USA,
>Europe and India)> >>> >> I have come across lots of
>long time DBAs with no OCP, who frown on >OCP> >>DBAs.
>Working closely with them, I noticed that these longs
>really count> >>the> >>hours to bill the clients. To
>my dismay, I came across 10+ years Oracle> >>DBAs>
> >>who had no clue about OPS, Partitioning, Snapshots,
>Stand by etc... They> >>have gained experience over
>the years only because the client could not> >>find>
> >>a better alternative.> >>> >> At the same time, in
>the interviews and at work, I come across lots of>
> >>new> >>OCP DBAs who can do the job, but need lots
>support and help from the >other> >>DBAs. (It is sort
>of baby sitting).> >>> >> I was a DBA without OCP for
>long time and I had no problem in finding> >>jobs>
> >>without OCP. After I started preparing for OCP, I
>came to know of so >many> >>things that I did not know
>before. In my humble opinion, any OCP DBA >with>
> >>experience is lot better than a OCP DBA without
>experience or an> >>experienced> >>DBA without OCP.>
> >>> >> OCP helped me as a DBA to understand things
>that I did not know >before.> >>It> >>took lots of
>time, confidence and enthusiasm to be a OCP DBA and
>change >my> >>self in the process.> >>> >> Without
>OCP, I would have been a Pumpkin DBA, doing clueless
>things in >a> >>random and unilateral way. Let's face
>it... OCP or No OCP is a matter of> >>choice. But it
>helps to be OCP than be left-out and looking at SOUR>
> >>GRAPES!!!> >>> >>Rama> >>OCP DBA with experience!>
> >>> >>> >>--> >>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>http://www.orafaq.com> >>--> >>Author: Rama Malladi>
> >> INET: rmalladi_at_inteliant.com> >>> >>Fat City
>Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
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> >Author: Rachel Carmichael> > INET:
>carmichr_at_hotmail.com> >> >Fat City Network Services --
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>Author: SHAIBAL TALUKDER
> INET: shaibal_talukder_at_yahoo.com
>
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Received on Wed Dec 06 2000 - 08:44:03 CST

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